guys, I’ve been playing with SDL for a while now, as well as SDL_ttf, and
SDL_net and SDL_image …
i cannot see why, these additional libraries are not built into libSDL? it
doesn’t make sence to me as to why we have separate libraries, where your
common application will most probably need an additional one of these
libraries anyway.
perhaps the advantage is to keep things granular, but aligning these
addtional libraries into SDL stills reflects the common goal of these
projects and is not such an administrative pain.
if there is plans to integrate these libraries let me know, because i
haven’t come across any info about it. perhaps this is happening in
SDL2.0??
guys, I’ve been playing with SDL for a while now, as well as SDL_ttf,
and
SDL_net and SDL_image …
i cannot see why, these additional libraries are not built into
libSDL? it
doesn’t make sence to me as to why we have separate libraries, where
your
common application will most probably need an additional one of these
libraries anyway.
Better still, why not integrate all of the SDL libraries into an
application… say, a web browser… and then distribute that? Wait… I
hear something like that’s been done already.
Sorry to make fun of you. But I personally would hate that. Even
SDL_image on its own annoys me in that it seems to require 2 or 3 extra
libraries to work, even when I don’t need jpeg or png support. Also, I
don’t need any networking, or any true-type font rendering.
So if anything, I would actually be in favour of splitting the libraries
up further, providing the documentation for them all is good enough.
(Allowing you to quickly see which libraries you need for a given task
or function.)
Of course, there’s nothing stopping you compiling all the libraries into
one yourself and distributing that.From: dgibb@optusnet.com.au (davin)
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 9:35 PM
Subject: [SDL] any plans to integrate common libraries into libSDL??
On Mon Feb 11, 2002 at 07:11:13PM -0000, the boisterous
Kylotan
wrote to me:
Sorry to make fun of you. But I personally would hate that. Even
SDL_image on its own annoys me in that it seems to require 2 or 3 extra
libraries to work, even when I don’t need jpeg or png support. Also, I
don’t need any networking, or any true-type font rendering.
Try a ./configure --disable-png --disable-jpg
So if anything, I would actually be in favour of splitting the libraries
up further, providing the documentation for them all is good enough.
(Allowing you to quickly see which libraries you need for a given task
or function.)
That’s the point. Why should anyone want to be able to load pngs when all
he wants to play some sound files? And why should the gameserver load some
ttfs?
so long
Krenni–
___ Obviously we do not want to leave zombies around. /\ - W. Richard Stevens
( ^ >
/ \ Thomas Krennwallner
(/) 1024D/67A1DA7B 9484 D99D 2E1E 4E02 5446 DAD9 FF58 4E59 67A1 DA7B
i cannot see why, these additional libraries are not built into libSDL? it
doesn’t make sence to me as to why we have separate libraries, where your
common application will most probably need an additional one of these
libraries anyway.
I can see that most people only want what they need. I personally use
SDL_net and SDL_ttf but not SDL_image for most of my projects…
I think the big issue here is ease of install and setup.
To get ttf working I had to d/l a ton of things and then configure them
myself, ensuring I had the correct versions of the various libraries…
Certainly, one of the biggest things that I dread when porting to a new
platform is setting up allthe bloody libraries I need again, and esp. on
linux, having to either compile them all or go through RPM Hell…
For windows at least it should be possible to wrap up most things into one
almighty installer and get the installer to create make/project files
based upon which libraries you choose to install.
Clearly this is a right pain in the butt to do, and would most probably
end up being tied to only a few (maybe even just one) C compilers. which
is almost certainly why it’s not yet been done.
But it would help the n00bs out there…
Yours,
Andy GordonOn Sun, 10 Feb 2002, davin wrote:
QueriX UK
36A London Road http://www.querix.co.uk
Southampton
Tel: +44 23 8023 2345 andy at querix.co.uk
Fax: +44 23 8039 9685
i cannot see why, these additional libraries are not built into libSDL? it
doesn’t make sence to me as to why we have separate libraries, where your
common application will most probably need an additional one of these
libraries anyway.
I can see that most people only want what they need. I personally use
SDL_net and SDL_ttf but not SDL_image for most of my projects…
I think the big issue here is ease of install and setup.
To get ttf working I had to d/l a ton of things and then configure them
myself, ensuring I had the correct versions of the various libraries…
Certainly, one of the biggest things that I dread when porting to a new
platform is setting up allthe bloody libraries I need again, and esp. on
linux, having to either compile them all or go through RPM Hell…
For windows at least it should be possible to wrap up most things into one
almighty installer and get the installer to create make/project files
based upon which libraries you choose to install.
Clearly this is a right pain in the butt to do, and would most probably
end up being tied to only a few (maybe even just one) C compilers. which
is almost certainly why it’s not yet been done.
Yep.
But it would help the n00bs out there…
You’re welcome to give it a shot!
See ya,
-Sam Lantinga, Software Engineer, Blizzard Entertainment> On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, davin wrote:
SDL_image on its own annoys me in that it seems to require 2
or 3 extra libraries to work,
So do I.
Is it
possible
Yeah it’s possible.
legal
Well, I don’t see why it should be illegal, seeing as all of these
libraries (libtiff, libjpeg, libpng) are all under MIT/X Consortium type
licenses.On Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 12:39:07PM +0100, Eike Sauer wrote:
–
Rafael R. Sevilla <@Rafael_Dido_Sevilla> +63(2) 8177746 ext. 8311
Programmer, Inter.Net Philippines +63(917) 4458925 http://dido.ph.inter.net/ OpenPGP Key ID: 0x5CDA17D8
Heute die Welt und Morgen das Sonnensystem!
A agree with the guy who made the original post. It
would be nice to maybe have the option of downloading
one lib with most of the common stuff bundled
together. But give an option of downloading exactly
what you want. For me when I started working on my
game with sdl with some friends, I had no idea that I
was going need sdl_mixer. I figured mixer support was
allready built in. Anyway as we’re working on the game
I decide we need a menu, but guess what? SDL doesn’t
support outputing text either. But then I hear you
guys talking about SDL_ttf or something like that. And
a SDL_net??? And SDL_mpeg??? I think I’m just too used
to allegro, which has everything built in. Anyway it
would at least be good to have all of the recomended
libs together, seperate from the other libs, so that
newbees will know from the beginning that these are
the ones you’ll propably need to make a complete game.
Thats my two cents
Herbert
— Rafael ‘Dido’ Sevilla
wrote:>
On Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 12:39:07PM +0100, Eike Sauer wrote:
Hello!
SDL_image on its own annoys me in that it seems
to require 2
or 3 extra libraries to work,
So do I.
Is it
possible
Yeah it’s possible.
legal
Well, I don’t see why it should be illegal, seeing
as all of these
libraries (libtiff, libjpeg, libpng) are all under
MIT/X Consortium type
licenses.
–
Rafael R. Sevilla
+63(2) 8177746 ext. 8311
Programmer, Inter.Net Philippines
+63(917) 4458925 http://dido.ph.inter.net/
OpenPGP Key ID: 0x5CDA17D8
Heute die Welt und Morgen das
Sonnensystem!
=====
Game Programming Groups
VS Entertainment(Houston game dev group, looking for members)
IGP(Internet game programming group, looking for members also)
Ask me for details…
Someone (or multiple people) need to create a tgz with a top level makefile
that calls the apropriate makefiles for all the libs contained within. For
rpm-based and debian systems make an RPM or PKG that contains all the libs and
installs them all at once. Something like SDL_libs-1.2-3.{rpm,pkg,tgz}> A agree with the guy who made the original post. It
would be nice to maybe have the option of downloading
one lib with most of the common stuff bundled
together. But give an option of downloading exactly
what you want. For me when I started working on my
game with sdl with some friends, I had no idea that I
was going need sdl_mixer. I figured mixer support was
allready built in. Anyway as we’re working on the game
I decide we need a menu, but guess what? SDL doesn’t
support outputing text either. But then I hear you
guys talking about SDL_ttf or something like that. And
a SDL_net??? And SDL_mpeg??? I think I’m just too used
to allegro, which has everything built in. Anyway it
would at least be good to have all of the recomended
libs together, seperate from the other libs, so that
newbees will know from the beginning that these are
the ones you’ll propably need to make a complete game.
Thats my two cents
Herbert
— Rafael ‘Dido’ Sevilla
wrote:
On Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 12:39:07PM +0100, Eike Sauer wrote:
Hello!
SDL_image on its own annoys me in that it seems
to require 2
or 3 extra libraries to work,
So do I.
Is it
possible
Yeah it’s possible.
legal
Well, I don’t see why it should be illegal, seeing
as all of these
libraries (libtiff, libjpeg, libpng) are all under
MIT/X Consortium type
licenses.
–
Rafael R. Sevilla
+63(2) 8177746 ext. 8311
Programmer, Inter.Net Philippines
+63(917) 4458925 http://dido.ph.inter.net/
OpenPGP Key ID: 0x5CDA17D8
Heute die Welt und Morgen das
Sonnensystem!
=====
Game Programming Groups
VS Entertainment(Houston game dev group, looking for members)
IGP(Internet game programming group, looking for members also)
Ask me for details…
I think that this is probably the best solution,
the only problem is having the package available
for all platforms. And coordinating package
versions.
I must stress that I think that many people don’t
try SDL due to the fact that it is very complex
to add the SDL_* modules.
The problem is not just using the makefiles, or
configure scripts.
The Mac, and Windows folks usually use Metrowerks
or Visual C++. Many of the SDL_* modules, or the
libs they use, don’t provide makefiles or project
files for these environments. So every time a new
version comes along, we have to recreate project
files, see if any makefile has suffered any kind
of change and so on…
For me the SDL package would have,
SDL
SDL_image
SDL_net
SDL_mixer
SDL_mpeg
SDL_ttf
Of course these modules also imply,
libtiff
libpng
zlib
freetype
As you can see this is lot of packages to
coordinate.> ----- Original Message -----
From: jason@shakabuku.org (Jason Bodnar)
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: [SDL] any plans to integrate common libraries into libSDL??
Simple solution:
Someone (or multiple people) need to create a tgz with a top level
makefile
that calls the apropriate makefiles for all the libs contained within. For
rpm-based and debian systems make an RPM or PKG that contains all the libs
and
installs them all at once. Something like SDL_libs-1.2-3.{rpm,pkg,tgz}
A agree with the guy who made the original post. It
would be nice to maybe have the option of downloading
one lib with most of the common stuff bundled
together. But give an option of downloading exactly
what you want. For me when I started working on my
game with sdl with some friends, I had no idea that I
was going need sdl_mixer. I figured mixer support was
allready built in. Anyway as we’re working on the game
I decide we need a menu, but guess what? SDL doesn’t
support outputing text either. But then I hear you
guys talking about SDL_ttf or something like that. And
a SDL_net??? And SDL_mpeg??? I think I’m just too used
to allegro, which has everything built in. Anyway it
would at least be good to have all of the recomended
libs together, seperate from the other libs, so that
newbees will know from the beginning that these are
the ones you’ll propably need to make a complete game.
Thats my two cents
Herbert
— Rafael ‘Dido’ Sevilla
wrote:
On Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 12:39:07PM +0100, Eike Sauer wrote:
Hello!
SDL_image on its own annoys me in that it seems
to require 2
or 3 extra libraries to work,
So do I.
Is it
possible
Yeah it’s possible.
legal
Well, I don’t see why it should be illegal, seeing
as all of these
libraries (libtiff, libjpeg, libpng) are all under
MIT/X Consortium type
licenses.
–
Rafael R. Sevilla
+63(2) 8177746 ext. 8311
Programmer, Inter.Net Philippines
+63(917) 4458925 http://dido.ph.inter.net/
OpenPGP Key ID: 0x5CDA17D8
Heute die Welt und Morgen das
Sonnensystem!
=====
Game Programming Groups
VS Entertainment(Houston game dev group, looking for members)
IGP(Internet game programming group, looking for members also)
Ask me for details…
Having everything in one package does make life easier:
for SDL newbies, since they don’t have to bother with lots of libraries
for gamers; setting up libraries on *nix is usually a major pain, and
integrating everything in a single library will make life easier
The biggest issue is obviously that different people will have different
opinions on what belongs into such a library. However, please don’t make
the mistake of introducing an option to download “just what you want”.
It may be a nice deal for programmers, but it would be versioning hell for
everybody else - kind of like the desktop mess on Linux (thousands to choose
from, and every one has unique advantages).
Another issue with a huge library is, of course, external dependencies
(here we go again with the setup troubles) - unless all the dependencies are
integrated into the distributed library (so they aren’t dependencies
anymore…).
Personally, what I would like to see in core SDL is a wider range of
portability functions, like networking (i.e., SDL_net) and dynamic library
support.
cu,
NicolaiAm Mittwoch, 13. Februar 2002 17:28 schrieb Red:
A agree with the guy who made the original post. It
would be nice to maybe have the option of downloading
one lib with most of the common stuff bundled
together. But give an option of downloading exactly
what you want. For me when I started working on my
game with sdl with some friends, I had no idea that I
was going need sdl_mixer. I figured mixer support was
allready built in. Anyway as we’re working on the game
I decide we need a menu, but guess what? SDL doesn’t
support outputing text either. But then I hear you
guys talking about SDL_ttf or something like that. And
a SDL_net??? And SDL_mpeg??? I think I’m just too used
to allegro, which has everything built in. Anyway it
would at least be good to have all of the recomended
libs together, seperate from the other libs, so that
newbees will know from the beginning that these are
the ones you’ll propably need to make a complete game.
