How big is the the Linux game market

Hi All,
Just wondering what everyone’s opinion is on the size of the Linux
Game market and it’s future possibilities.

Dominique
http://www.DelphiGamer.com

As far as having Linux as the only OS for desktop is rare I think Linux as
the Game Platform is going to be non-existant. Most people using Linux (as
a machine capable for playing instead of headless server) already dual
boot to Windows for some game or program that doesn’t support Linux yet.

Now if a game in store is $30 for Windows and $35 for Linux most of these
people are going to get the Windows version. If they want that game
they’re probably willing to dual boot to play it. I think that most Linux
users think that linux support is nice for a game, but it shouldn’t cost
extra. I think most Linux users would be happy with RPM package for
installation and a native binary compiled with wine-libs or at least some
checks from developers that the game is playable under wine.

In the future when Linux has required software base/hardware support not
to have Windows installed as well, supporting Linux will be far more
important. I’d guess that we’ll be there after a couple of years when most
hardware supports Linux in addition to Windows and Linux becomes viable
first OS for a home user.

  • Mikko

PS. Should I reply to the list only or to newsgroup also?On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Dominique Louis wrote:

Just wondering what everyone’s opinion is on the size of the Linux
Game market and it’s future possibilities.

If someone were to release a revolutionary game on the Linux OS only, I’m
sure that that would change the current state of things as well. Any takers?

marcoOn Wednesday 25 July 2001 07:03, Mikko Rantalainen wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Dominique Louis wrote:

Just wondering what everyone’s opinion is on the size of the Linux
Game market and it’s future possibilities.

As far as having Linux as the only OS for desktop is rare I think Linux as
the Game Platform is going to be non-existant. Most people using Linux (as
a machine capable for playing instead of headless server) already dual
boot to Windows for some game or program that doesn’t support Linux yet.

Now if a game in store is $30 for Windows and $35 for Linux most of these
people are going to get the Windows version. If they want that game
they’re probably willing to dual boot to play it. I think that most Linux
users think that linux support is nice for a game, but it shouldn’t cost
extra. I think most Linux users would be happy with RPM package for
installation and a native binary compiled with wine-libs or at least some
checks from developers that the game is playable under wine.

In the future when Linux has required software base/hardware support not
to have Windows installed as well, supporting Linux will be far more
important. I’d guess that we’ll be there after a couple of years when most
hardware supports Linux in addition to Windows and Linux becomes viable
first OS for a home user.

  • Mikko

PS. Should I reply to the list only or to newsgroup also?


SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

Dominique Louis wrote:

Hi All,
Just wondering what everyone’s opinion is on the size of the Linux
Game market and it’s future possibilities.

Currently - it’s not anything big. You probably can’t make a
living out of releasing a Linux-only game today. But for the
future - the potential is great I think! But as long as
most popular games only come for Windows - it’s not going
to start a revolution… blame the game-developers :slight_smile:

By releasing your games for Linux - you can be part of those
people making the difference.

Mikko Rantalainen wrote:

Now if a game in store is $30 for Windows and $35 for Linux most of these
people are going to get the Windows version.

Yes, that sounds like bad pricing policy. If you gave Windows the price
of $35 and Linux a price of $20 - people would start considering!
And Linux is a free OS, so maybe these prices would be fair - at least
until everybody develops games for Linux…

Marco Carbone wrote:

If someone were to release a revolutionary game on the Linux OS only, I’m
sure that that would change the current state of things as well.

Exactly - that’s really all it takes :slight_smile: (OK - maybe more than one game
but…)

Cheers–
http://www.HardcoreProcessing.com

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed…
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OTOH, SDL makes it way too easy to port the game to Windows… You’d have
to keep the game source closed to get away with it. I’ve no idea what to
do with the marketting people, though - make sure they never find out
about SDL? :slight_smile:

//David Olofson — Programmer, Reologica Instruments AB

.- M A I A -------------------------------------------------.
| Multimedia Application Integration Architecture |
| A Free/Open Source Plugin API for Professional Multimedia |
----------------------> http://www.linuxaudiodev.com/maia -' .- David Olofson -------------------------------------------. | Audio Hacker - Open Source Advocate - Singer - Songwriter |--------------------------------------> david at linuxdj.com -'On Wednesday 25 July 2001 15:06, Marco Carbone wrote:

If someone were to release a revolutionary game on the Linux OS only,
I’m sure that that would change the current state of things as well.
Any takers?

Dominique Louis wrote:

Hi All,
Just wondering what everyone’s opinion is on the size of the Linux
Game market and it’s future possibilities.

Currently - it’s not anything big. You probably can’t make a
living out of releasing a Linux-only game today. But for the
future - the potential is great I think! But as long as
most popular games only come for Windows - it’s not going
to start a revolution… blame the game-developers :slight_smile:

By releasing your games for Linux - you can be part of those
people making the difference.

Well, I’m probably not going to spend much time making my stuff run well
on Windows - maybe not even build Windows binaries myself. But either
way, arcade style 2D shooters aren’t going to change the world again, are
they? :slight_smile:

Mikko Rantalainen wrote:

Now if a game in store is $30 for Windows and $35 for Linux most of
these people are going to get the Windows version.

Yes, that sounds like bad pricing policy.

Especially since Linux versions are often

* ports that cost only a fraction of what it
  costs to write a game from scratch, and

* they're based on games that weren't originally
  meant to be ported - Linux is a *bonus* market.

If you gave Windows the price
of $35 and Linux a price of $20 - people would start considering!
And Linux is a free OS, so maybe these prices would be fair - at least
until everybody develops games for Linux…

Actually, one could argue that you would want to pay more for solutions
for a “free” OS - but then again, that only applies if you have strong
motivation to run only that OS. Not even possible for the average user,
as the Linux applications are still lightyears behind their Windows
equivalents in many areas.

(As for my own needs, I’m only missing some serious audio/MIDI
applications and a really good web browser - for the rest I prefer the
Linux based solutions for pretty much all applicable reasons.)

BTW, if it was possible to find the Linux version of for example Quake
III Arena in one single shop around here, I would have purchased a copy -
but I could only find Windows and MacOS versions. Most dealers still go
"Is it possible to release commercial software for Linux?" or “Wow, did
they port that to Linux!?”…

Marco Carbone wrote:

If someone were to release a revolutionary game on the Linux OS only,
I’m sure that that would change the current state of things as well.

Exactly - that’s really all it takes :slight_smile: (OK - maybe more than one game
but…)

Well, if it was a mega hit in the Doom league, one game would probably be
more than enough… heh

Any world class game designer geniouses around here? :slight_smile:

//David Olofson — Programmer, Reologica Instruments AB

.- M A I A -------------------------------------------------.
| Multimedia Application Integration Architecture |
| A Free/Open Source Plugin API for Professional Multimedia |
----------------------> http://www.linuxaudiodev.com/maia -' .- David Olofson -------------------------------------------. | Audio Hacker - Open Source Advocate - Singer - Songwriter |--------------------------------------> david at linuxdj.com -'On Wednesday 25 July 2001 17:25, Anoq of the Sun wrote:

I can only agree here, although the driver mess seems to have been
cleaned up a great deal in newer distros. Some of the install X with
OpenGL drivers and everything right out of the box, and everything works
without root privileges, as far as possible. (Some things are inherently
unsafe and shouldn’t be accessible to non-root users - or you might as
well run DX on Win98…)

If I were to do serious games programming on Linux, it would probably be
for Linux based game consoles or arcade machines as things look now.
There, Linux is just about perfect; you can pick properly supported
hardware, use RTLinux, Linux/lowlatency, retrace sync hacks, custom game
controller with your own drivers, or whatever it takes, and it’s a nice
and solid platform to work on.

//David Olofson — Programmer, Reologica Instruments AB

.- M A I A -------------------------------------------------.
| Multimedia Application Integration Architecture |
| A Free/Open Source Plugin API for Professional Multimedia |
----------------------> http://www.linuxaudiodev.com/maia -' .- David Olofson -------------------------------------------. | Audio Hacker - Open Source Advocate - Singer - Songwriter |--------------------------------------> david at linuxdj.com -'On Wednesday 25 July 2001 17:45, Stephan Sauerburger wrote:

Not even worth considering. I’m a pretty heavy linux user, but when it
comes to games, it’s about the worst platform to go with. All the game
market is 14-year-olds on their Win98 boxes and cable modems. And if
you have a little extra time and energy (and who does in the game
field?), port it to a Mac. But one thing’s for sure - noone turns to
Linux for the games. You have permissions issues, wildly varying
libraries between distros, difficulty to port, framebuffer gayness that
rarely works, incomplete d iver support, crappy documentation,
unintuitiveness; it’s pretty-much the opposite end of the spectrum from
the game console, which is the ideal platform to play on / program for.
Just my opinion after several years of struggle. =oP

Sure I have Windows and Linux installed on my system, but after using
Linux for the last 3 years I now have a stronge dislike for ever
rebooting my computer. That’s why all the games I’ve bought in the last
couple of years have been Linux only.

The whole library dependency problems under Linux will go away soon
(Debian Linux has already taken care of this), and if you develop your
games using SDL you should be in good shape.

Also a good recommendation for any game developer is to develop the game
on a completely different platform than the main platform you’re
targeting. This will make porting much easier (since you’ve already
done it once), and generally will make your code better. That’s a
philosophy that John Carmack has used for a long time, and it seems to
work well for them (Doom was programmed mostly on Next workstations).

Also don’t just develop on the x86 platform with Windows and Linux,
prehaps develop the majority of the game on ppc linux (Debian and Yellow
Dog Linux both work on ppcs), or even better would be a 64bit system
(such as ia64, ppc64, etc.)

BryanOn Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 02:03:35PM +0300, Mikko Rantalainen wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Dominique Louis wrote:

Just wondering what everyone’s opinion is on the size of the Linux
Game market and it’s future possibilities.

As far as having Linux as the only OS for desktop is rare I think Linux as
the Game Platform is going to be non-existant. Most people using Linux (as
a machine capable for playing instead of headless server) already dual
boot to Windows for some game or program that doesn’t support Linux yet.

Now if a game in store is $30 for Windows and $35 for Linux most of these
people are going to get the Windows version. If they want that game
they’re probably willing to dual boot to play it. I think that most Linux
users think that linux support is nice for a game, but it shouldn’t cost
extra. I think most Linux users would be happy with RPM package for
installation and a native binary compiled with wine-libs or at least some
checks from developers that the game is playable under wine.

In the future when Linux has required software base/hardware support not
to have Windows installed as well, supporting Linux will be far more
important. I’d guess that we’ll be there after a couple of years when most
hardware supports Linux in addition to Windows and Linux becomes viable
first OS for a home user.

  • Mikko

PS. Should I reply to the list only or to newsgroup also?


SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

everybody has reason in a way.

two majors points:

  • a linux box, even with dual boot is not affordable for everyone in terms
    of ease of use, unless you buy a mandrake distro ??

  • installing a software under linux is always a challenge for the average
    user,
    if you can figure out that a game is a special kind of software,
    i let you imagine the chaos…

if you consider a linux box and a windows box, there is no way the linux box
would be chosen to play games. since the game market is represented by
teenagers
that only know to click with their mouse and that too few of them know
how to install a rpm in the possibility they have linux installed somewhere,
and even less how to do manual-configuration is something goes wrong.

by now, even if minds are changing, all unix-based developers we are know
that using this system is not easy at the beginning, sometimes
discourageant,
and classic users know that too, so they prefer clicking on buttons under
windows, easier. the other point is that the porting is not always easy due
to library
dependencies and stuff like that.

but, there is a good point. if you know half-life and the great know
counter-strike
addon, many gamers (i include players too) that set up lan-games
often use a dedicated server based on linux. i think that if a migration to
linux
station in order to play game would happen… so this kind of game is the
good example
to follow since it shows how a linux box properly configured is much more
powerful
than a typical windows station.> -----Message d’origine-----

De : sdl-admin at libsdl.org [mailto:sdl-admin at libsdl.org]De la part de
Stephan Sauerburger
Envoy? : mercredi 25 juillet 2001 16:46
? : sdl at libsdl.org; dominique at savagesoftware.com.au
Objet : RE: [SDL] How big is the the Linux game market…

Not even worth considering. I’m a pretty heavy linux user, but
when it comes to games, it’s about the worst platform to go with.
All the game market is 14-year-olds on their Win98 boxes and
cable modems. And if you have a little extra time and energy (and
who does in the game field?), port it to a Mac. But one thing’s
for sure - noone turns to Linux for the games. You have
permissions issues, wildly varying libraries between distros,
difficulty to port, framebuffer gayness that rarely works,
incomplete driver support, crappy documentation, unintuitiveness;
it’s pretty-much the opposite end of the spectrum from the game
console, which is the ideal platform to play on / program for.
Just my opinion after several years of struggle. =oP

~Stephan~

Dominique Louis
sdl at libsdl.org [SDL] How big is the the Linux game market…Date:
Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:35:49 +0100

Hi All,
Just wondering what everyone’s opinion is on the size of the Linux
Game market and it’s future possibilities.

Dominique
http://www.DelphiGamer.com


SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl


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Stephan Sauerburger wrote:

You have permissions issues,

true…

wildly varying libraries between distros, difficulty to port,
framebuffer gayness that rarely works, incomplete driver support,
crappy documentation, unintuitiveness;

Solution:

  1. Develop using SDL
  2. Deliver all needed libraries with your game
  3. Recommend Debian (or another easily installable dist.?) to the user

Then there’s only the X / OpenGL / driver thing etc. - but it’s getting
much better with XFree86 4…

But we really also need to convince the Hardware vendors to deliver
machines preinstalled with Linux - then many of these problems
will also be gone.

Damien Mascr? wrote:

  • installing a software under linux is always a challenge for the average
    user,
    if you can figure out that a game is a special kind of software,
    i let you imagine the chaos…

Actually - I have plans for making a solution for this… :slight_smile:

Cheers–
http://www.HardcoreProcessing.com

Actually, I’m developing an arcade game in Linux. It’s an interesting
aspect of gaming, I’m using SDL, but not because of it’s portability
features, mainly because of the API and the extra libraries available that
makes it easy to add extra functionality.

DanOn 2001.07.25 19:35 Dominique Louis wrote:

Hi All,
Just wondering what everyone’s opinion is on the size of the Linux
Game market and it’s future possibilities.

Just wondering what everyone’s opinion is on the size of the Linux
Game market and it’s future possibilities.

Please take this offlist.

m.On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:16:54AM +1000, Dan Harper wrote:


“To be able to trust and rely on another person is
the most valuable gift in this world to give and to receive.”
– Sensei Furuya

Where is the thread taking place because it’s not getting any air time
on the newsgroup server where I started it so I have no idea what people
have said except for those that have CCed me.

PS. Sorry for the OT post.

Dominique

Dominique Louis wrote:> Hi All,

Just wondering what everyone’s opinion is on the size of the Linux
Game market and it’s future possibilities.

Dominique
http://www.DelphiGamer.com

I can’t really believe that. The killer app for Linux (so far) is
Apache. If another killer app comes along that pushes it into the
desktop it probably won’t be a game.

The most likely killer consumer app for Linux IMHO is Tivo. Possible
others are web pads, palm sized organizers (though Palm Corp has this
pretty well locked if they don’t blow it), possible future wearable
devices, &c.

Cheers,
-klsOn Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 09:06:17AM -0400, Marco Carbone wrote:

If someone were to release a revolutionary game on the Linux OS only, I’m
sure that that would change the current state of things as well. Any takers?

marco

On Wednesday 25 July 2001 07:03, Mikko Rantalainen wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Dominique Louis wrote:

Just wondering what everyone’s opinion is on the size of the Linux
Game market and it’s future possibilities.

As far as having Linux as the only OS for desktop is rare I think Linux as
the Game Platform is going to be non-existant. Most people using Linux (as
a machine capable for playing instead of headless server) already dual
boot to Windows for some game or program that doesn’t support Linux yet.

Now if a game in store is $30 for Windows and $35 for Linux most of these
people are going to get the Windows version. If they want that game
they’re probably willing to dual boot to play it. I think that most Linux
users think that linux support is nice for a game, but it shouldn’t cost
extra. I think most Linux users would be happy with RPM package for
installation and a native binary compiled with wine-libs or at least some
checks from developers that the game is playable under wine.

In the future when Linux has required software base/hardware support not
to have Windows installed as well, supporting Linux will be far more
important. I’d guess that we’ll be there after a couple of years when most
hardware supports Linux in addition to Windows and Linux becomes viable
first OS for a home user.

  • Mikko

PS. Should I reply to the list only or to newsgroup also?


SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl


SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

I can’t really believe that. The killer app for Linux (so far) is
Apache. If another killer app comes along that pushes it into the
desktop it probably won’t be a game.

…meanwhile, gaming and entertainment in general, is a major (perhaps
The major) part of the computer industry…

An Internet Explorer killer (fast rendering, full support for all
"standards") and a truly professional grade office suite (less buggs and
more features than StarOffice) could make a big difference, though.

The most likely killer consumer app for Linux IMHO is Tivo. Possible
others are web pads, palm sized organizers (though Palm Corp has this
pretty well locked if they don’t blow it), possible future wearable
devices, &c.

Yes, Linux has great possibilities in the handheld field, as it’s less
resource hungry than many other handheld OSes, it’s more of a real OS
than a crippled “mini version” of some “real” OS, and the lack of desktop
applications and games doesn’t matter that much in this field.

//David Olofson — Programmer, Reologica Instruments AB

.- M A I A -------------------------------------------------.
| Multimedia Application Integration Architecture |
| A Free/Open Source Plugin API for Professional Multimedia |
----------------------> http://www.linuxaudiodev.com/maia -' .- David Olofson -------------------------------------------. | Audio Hacker - Open Source Advocate - Singer - Songwriter |--------------------------------------> david at linuxdj.com -'On Wednesday 25 July 2001 19:01, root wrote: