Icculus.org news

Many of the open source projects previously hosted by Loki have been
moved over to Ryan’s game development site: icculus.org

Among the many projects hosted there are SMPEG, SMJPEG, and OpenAL.
I will be updating the web site this weekend.

On a more personal note, since I am fairly close to Loki and care
about the Linux gaming scene, I suggest that anyone who is interested
in either check out Ryan’s announcement:
http://www.icculus.org/news/news.php?id=209

See ya,
-Sam Lantinga, Software Engineer, Blizzard Entertainment

I have a horrible feeling the Linux gaming community will start to go the
way the Amiga gaming scene went many years ago, which will be a real shame
:frowning:

That bit about pirating games is very very similar too. I can’t understand
why some member of the community that want more ports of bigger titles
pirate games and then bitch about no support.

Sorry… rant over.> -----Original Message-----

From: Sam Lantinga [SMTP:slouken at devolution.com]
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 5:57 PM
To: sdl at libsdl.org
Subject: [SDL] icculus.org news

Many of the open source projects previously hosted by Loki have been
moved over to Ryan’s game development site: icculus.org

Among the many projects hosted there are SMPEG, SMJPEG, and OpenAL.
I will be updating the web site this weekend.

On a more personal note, since I am fairly close to Loki and care
about the Linux gaming scene, I suggest that anyone who is interested
in either check out Ryan’s announcement:
http://www.icculus.org/news/news.php?id=209

See ya,
-Sam Lantinga, Software Engineer, Blizzard Entertainment


SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

I have a horrible feeling the Linux gaming community will start to go the
way the Amiga gaming scene went many years ago, which will be a real shame
:frowning:

But what the Linux community doesn’t have is an incompetent hardware/OS
manufacturer who will drive the platform into the ground, which service
Commodore and the succession of parent companies provided admirably for the
poor Amiga.

To get this a bit more on-topic, I wouldn’t be surprised if this didn’t turn
out to be a good thing for Linux gaming - now there isn’t “someone you go to
to get your game on Linux”, so if the game companies want to do it, they’ll
start thinking about ways to do it properly and cheaply - i.e. SDL. And
there will be a flock of ex-Loki programmers picking up jobs in other
companies and acting as evangelists for Linux gaming. The successful gaming
companies we all know and have a love/hate relationship with have already
tried to make simultaneous Linux/Windows releases of their games - so far
they’ve always missed, but at least they tried. Sooner or later they’ll
realise that developing for something like SDL will make their lives a tad
easier.

Keith Lawrence

I have a horrible feeling the Linux gaming community will start to go the
way the Amiga gaming scene went many years ago, which will be a real shame
:frowning:

Only if we let it, through apathy or gross incompetence, and I think either is unlikely. But we’re not going to see any massive growth overnight.

Linux started out as a grassroots platform with no commercial support. So has the Linux gaming scene. The Linux kernel developers created a world-class OS kernel with many innovative features and more efficient implementations of old features. And yet Windows NT has more marketshare than Linux; not due to technical superiority (questionable at best), but due to mindshare as a result of marketing and PR. (I’m not bashing Microsoft here; it is a fact that MS’s marketing engine is huge in comparison with the various commerical Linux marketing departments.)

Microsoft’s DirectX is extremely popular among game developers. SDL may well have a better API; I think so at least. But go to the bookstore sometime and compare the number of DirectX books to the number of SDL books. It is no surprise that DX is more widely used than SDL, even though SDL is much more portable, easier to learn, and fully open.

I think the Linux gaming scene is about where the Linux kernel was in 1994 or so. There is a lot of promise, and there are plenty of interested developers, but for now we are pretty much on our own. Nobody has really heard of us. The groundwork is in place; between SDL, OpenAL, Crystal Space, ClanLib, Allegro, Ogg Vorbis, and other libraries too numerous to name, we have a formidable multimedia platform. As these projects improve, they will gain more mindshare (through word of mouth, largely), and become more compelling for serious game development. Loki has proven that Linux and its associated toolkits can handle today’s games; the next step is to make these toolkits desirable for mainstream game development, not through marketing but through simple superiority to the commercial alternatives. We don’t have extensive financial resources to throw at the problem, but we do have massive amounts of technical skill.

It’s an API war, and currently the battle is uphill. But not impossible, if we care enough to see it through. Like I said earlier, the only things that can block us are apathy and gross incompetence, and I don’t think the latter is an issue with this group. If we as a community fail to provide a viable alternative to the Windows multimedia platform, we should not be surprised to see interest in Linux as a whole decline.

I for one don’t buy the argument that Linux belongs in the server room and not on the desktop. Without at least a reasonable level of desktop usability (document processing, music, games, ability to view media files), I believe Linux development will slow down drastically. (That’s a two-way relationship, by the way.)

That’s my $0.02; no refunds.

-JohnOn Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 06:19:25PM -0000, Sweeney, Steven (FNB) wrote:

That bit about pirating games is very very similar too. I can’t understand
why some member of the community that want more ports of bigger titles
pirate games and then bitch about no support.

Sorry… rant over.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Lantinga [SMTP:slouken at devolution.com]
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 5:57 PM
To: sdl at libsdl.org
Subject: [SDL] icculus.org news

Many of the open source projects previously hosted by Loki have been
moved over to Ryan’s game development site: icculus.org

Among the many projects hosted there are SMPEG, SMJPEG, and OpenAL.
I will be updating the web site this weekend.

On a more personal note, since I am fairly close to Loki and care
about the Linux gaming scene, I suggest that anyone who is interested
in either check out Ryan’s announcement:
http://www.icculus.org/news/news.php?id=209

See ya,
-Sam Lantinga, Software Engineer, Blizzard Entertainment


SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl


SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl


John R. Hall - Resident, Sol System, 3rd Planet Out
Student, Georgia Tech; Author, Programming Linux Games

Keith Lawrence wrote:

To get this a bit more on-topic, I wouldn’t be surprised if this didn’t turn
out to be a good thing for Linux gaming - now there isn’t “someone you go to
to get your game on Linux”, so if the game companies want to do it, they’ll
start thinking about ways to do it properly and cheaply - i.e. SDL. And
there will be a flock of ex-Loki programmers picking up jobs in other
companies and acting as evangelists for Linux gaming. The successful gaming
companies we all know and have a love/hate relationship with have already
tried to make simultaneous Linux/Windows releases of their games - so far
they’ve always missed, but at least they tried. Sooner or later they’ll
realise that developing for something like SDL will make their lives a tad
easier.

Keith Lawrence

A long time ago in a city just south on I35 I owned a non-controlling
percentage of a company that ported games to the Mac… The situation
with Mac games then was about the same as the situation with Linux games
now. Mac market share was actually dropping, Apple was at deaths door,
and there were very few companies that were at all interested in porting
games for the Mac, let alone write original games for that platform…
Now, the Mac as rebounded and has a solid, loyal, if small, market share
and you can get a lot of games for the Mac. Right now it is probably
pretty hard to make a living porting games to Linux, but as market share
increases this will change. Right now a company should be able to make a
living writing Linux only games just the same way the Bungie made a
living writing Mac only games when no one else was writing ANY games for
the Mac. As the number of Linux users grows the number of money making
Linux game companies will grow. What happened to Loki is pretty much the
same story as what happened to my company. All in all the closing of
these companies means nothing to the market or to history. But, is sure
as HELL hurts to watch something you love fall apart. So to all those
personally affected by the death of Loki, you have my deepest sympathy.

Bob P.-- 

±-----------------------------------+

  • Bob Pendleton is seeking contract +
  • and consulting work. Find out more +
  • at http://www.jump.net/~bobp +
    ±-----------------------------------+

Many of the open source projects previously hosted by Loki have been
moved over to Ryan’s game development site: icculus.org

I’m very glad to hear this, thanks Sam. icculus.org is turning into a
very good alternative to SourceForge little by little (though it won’t win
any major web design awards) and I am very happy to see them get a little
more mindshare.

VA has begun to remind me of GameSpy a bit too much. I’ve always said
that *Planet™ and the company itself were evil, and people thought I
was overreacting. Nobody’s laughing now and everyone wishes they’d looked
for alternatives before GameSpy proved me right. I see the same thing in
the future for VA and SourceForge. I’ll be kind and save everyone the
long rant for a change. =)

Among the many projects hosted there are SMPEG, SMJPEG, and OpenAL.
I will be updating the web site this weekend.

I am hoping this may mean we will see some progress on OpenAL as well. I
have been led to understand that Zeph has been Loki’s only sound person
for some time now and he’s not really been interested in trying to use
OpenAL outside of Loki’s own titles until it gets a little less finicky
and a little more portable (there are glaring API disparities which can
only be attributed to someone not having their head on straight in the
win32 camp…)

On a more personal note, since I am fairly close to Loki and care
about the Linux gaming scene, I suggest that anyone who is interested
in either check out Ryan’s announcement:
http://www.icculus.org/news/news.php?id=209

There is some very good advice near the end of that announcement.On Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 09:56:47AM -0800, Sam Lantinga wrote:


Joseph Carter No conceit in my family

Reading computer manuals without the hardware is as frustrating as reading
sex manuals without the software.
- Arthur C Clarke

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Many of the open source projects previously hosted by Loki have been
moved over to Ryan’s game development site: icculus.org

Among the many projects hosted there are SMPEG, SMJPEG, and OpenAL.
I will be updating the web site this weekend.

On a more personal note, since I am fairly close to Loki and care
about the Linux gaming scene, I suggest that anyone who is interested
in either check out Ryan’s announcement:
http://www.icculus.org/news/news.php?id=209

Interesting, but off topic.
Please continue this conversation on www.linuxgames.com .

:slight_smile:


J. Valenzuela
"One day an egg, a snake, a centipede, an ant, and a piece of
dung set out on a head-hunting expedition…" - Roland Dixon

----- Original Message -----
From: slouken@devolution.com (Sam Lantinga)
To:
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 9:56 AM
Subject: [SDL] icculus.org news