i would like to suggest something we all could do,
except those things commented at icculus’:
we should all stick together. perhaps loki’s fall
will bring us even tighter together, since we have
common aims: funny games and free, portable api(s)
john, about that directX thing: it is our
responsibility to make sdl more popular. write good
software, talk with your friends about sdl, show them,
what is possible under linux, suggest everywhere
linux/sdl whenever possible! for my part, i suggest
sdl almost everywhere at www.opengl.org.
and there are several other places to to do so.
only one word about directX: for sure, it is a great
api and has set several standards, but it is limited
to windows only. we have to pray, that microsoft won’t
decide releasing directX specs or on other platforms
(maybe even for linux!).
linux is gaining more and more popularity. maybe not
necessarily at the big commercial, but normal "folks"
tend more and more to try linux out and migrate
slowly.
imho, it’s too hard to say all software has to be
free, but for sure, all common standards should be
free, and not to be controlled by commercials and
their monopoly!
best regards,
Tolga Dalman.
Bob Pendleton wrote (Freitag, 25. Januar 2002 21:42):
Keith Lawrence wrote:
To get this a bit more on-topic, I wouldn’t be
surprised if this didn’t
turn out to be a good thing for Linux gaming - now
there isn’t "someone
you go to to get your game on Linux", so if the
game companies want to do
it, they’ll start thinking about ways to do it
properly and cheaply -
i.e. SDL. And there will be a flock of ex-Loki
programmers picking up
jobs in other companies and acting as evangelists
for Linux gaming. The
successful gaming companies we all know and have a
love/hate relationship
with have already tried to make simultaneous
Linux/Windows releases of
their games - so far they’ve always missed, but at
least they tried.
Sooner or later they’ll realise that developing
for something like SDL
will make their lives a tad easier.
Keith Lawrence
A long time ago in a city just south on I35 I owned
a non-controlling
percentage of a company that ported games to the
Mac… The situation
with Mac games then was about the same as the
situation with Linux games
now. Mac market share was actually dropping, Apple
was at deaths door,
and there were very few companies that were at all
interested in porting
games for the Mac, let alone write original games
for that platform…
Now, the Mac as rebounded and has a solid, loyal, if
small, market share
and you can get a lot of games for the Mac. Right
now it is probably
pretty hard to make a living porting games to Linux,
but as market share
increases this will change. Right now a company
should be able to make a
living writing Linux only games just the same way
the Bungie made a
living writing Mac only games when no one else was
writing ANY games for
the Mac. As the number of Linux users grows the
number of money making
Linux game companies will grow. What happened to
Loki is pretty much the
same story as what happened to my company. All in
all the closing of
these companies means nothing to the market or to
history. But, is sure
as HELL hurts to watch something you love fall
apart. So to all those
personally affected by the death of Loki, you have
my deepest sympathy.>
Bob P.
Eddy L O Jansson wrote (Freitag, 25. Januar 2002
23:43) :
to windows only. we have to pray, that microsoft
won’t
decide releasing directX specs or on other
platforms
(maybe even for linux!).
Why?
because directX (or rather direct3d) is steps ahead in
comparison to opengl. i dunno how it’s about sdl and
the rest of directx. also, directx is far far far
better known. from the view of a commercial
gamedeveloper, who used directx already, there
wouldn’t be a reason anymore using sdl instead.
imho, of course!
gamedeveloper, who used directx already, there
wouldn’t be a reason anymore using sdl instead.
Yes, but why would that be a problem?
SDL should compete on technial (being “better”) and ideological reasons (being free), not on the sole count that it’s “all there is to have”, IMHO.
The more the merrier, if developers could easily port their DirectX-games natively to UN*X-systems, then I don’t see what’s so bad about that. MS can’t take SDL away from us, and I’m
of the opinon that more games coming out for linux, no matter what API is used, would be an improvement. (could lead to more linux mindshare, improved driver-support from IHVs, etc)
Eddy L O Jansson wrote (Samstag, 26. Januar 2002
00:34) :
Why?
gamedeveloper, who used directx already, there
wouldn’t be a reason anymore using sdl instead.
Yes, but why would that be a problem?
SDL should compete on technial (being “better”) and
ideological reasons
(being free), not on the sole count that it’s “all
there is to have”, IMHO.
of course, that’s your opinion, and believe me: mine
too, but sdl hasn’t proven itself yet in their eyes!
The more the merrier, if developers could easily
port their DirectX-games
natively to UN*X-systems, then I don’t see what’s so
bad about that. MS
yeah, but i what if ms opened it’s specs for directx
and ported it to unix? then (these) developers
wouldn’t need another api, would they?
can’t take SDL away from us, and I’m of the opinon
that more games coming
out for linux, no matter what API is used, would be
an improvement. (could
lead to more linux mindshare, improved
driver-support from IHVs, etc)
i agree. ok, i’ve babbled enough! let’s start writing
a game
MS can’t take SDL away from us, and I’m of the opinon that more games coming
out for linux, no matter what API is used, would be an improvement. (could
lead to more linux mindshare, improved driver-support from IHVs, etc)>
I agree, there are plenty of Win32 developers out there using SDL as their
API, because it’s really easy to use, and becuase it’s simple to write X
platform games with it.
You can get decent performance out of SDL with a minimal amount of work.
DirectX is a pain sometimes. In my experience anyway.
yeah, but i what if ms opened it’s specs for directx
and ported it to unix? then (these) developers
wouldn’t need another api, would they?
DirectX is still a complicated mess to use, as opposed to the clean and
simple SDL API, IMHO. I’ve used both, and I’d much rather contribute to
SDL than going back to DirectX, and have to write two versions of 30% of
my code. (I don’t do Windows-only, at least not until someone pays
substantial amounts to keep me from porting to Linux in my spare time!)
i agree. ok, i’ve babbled enough! let’s start writing
a game
Yeah, good point. Let’s stop spamming the list…
//David Olofson — Programmer, Reologica Instruments AB
.- M A I A -------------------------------------------------.
| Multimedia Application Integration Architecture |
| A Free/Open Source Plugin API for Professional Multimedia | ----------------------------> http://www.linuxdj.com/maia -' .- David Olofson -------------------------------------------. | Audio Hacker - Open Source Advocate - Singer - Songwriter |-------------------------------------> http://olofson.net -'On Saturday 26 January 2002 00:55, ates x wrote:
gamedeveloper, who used directx already, there
wouldn’t be a reason anymore using sdl instead.
Yes, but why would that be a problem?
SDL should compete on technial (being “better”) and ideological reasons (being free), not on the sole count that it’s “all there is to have”, IMHO.
The more the merrier, if developers could easily port their DirectX-games natively to UN*X-systems, then I don’t see what’s so bad about that. MS can’t take SDL away from us, and I’m
of the opinon that more games coming out for linux, no matter what API is used, would be an improvement. (could lead to more linux mindshare, improved driver-support from IHVs, etc)
I semi-agree here. Ideologically this is true, but the fact of the
matter is that SDL isn’t as mature as DirectX. Why contribute to a
project when another is already in place?
The lack of something like Direct X ported to linux is the exact reason
that SDL exists. Without a hole to fill, no one will fill it. That
instantly brings about the question, “So what? If there’s something,
there doesn’t need to be another.” Well, I say competition is good.
It’s much easier to have a focused community of developers working on a
project when there’s no ‘easy’ solution available. Try to round up
enough people to contribute when there is. I dare ya.
It’d be nice to see ports of Direct X show up in a couple of years. Let
things get up to speed with other projects which have had a chance to
incubate without the competition. Then let the battle begin on somewhat
even footing.On Fri, 2002-01-25 at 18:34, Eddy L O Jansson wrote:
yeah, but i what if ms opened it’s specs for directx
and ported it to unix? then (these) developers
wouldn’t need another api, would they?
[evil]
Why not port DirectX to SDL ?
[/evil]
i agree. ok, i’ve babbled enough! let’s start writing
a game
I have =)
Well, i have started work on some libs it’s going to use, at least, like SIF,
which is currently being rewritten for the nth time … but i’m pretty sure
i’ve got it right this time.
I’ll let the list know when i know something more =)–
Trick
It’d be nice to see ports of Direct X show up in a couple of years. Let
things get up to speed with other projects which have had a chance to
incubate without the competition. Then let the battle begin on somewhat
even footing.
There is already at least one company (www.transgaming.com) shipping a
version of Wine with DirectX support. It’s real, one of my friends has
been playing with it and says he can now run most of his Windows games
on Linux. The real difficulty you encounter when trying to port any
Windows API to another platform is that the Windows APIs tend to depend
on each other. This means that to port DirectX you also have to port
most, if not all, of the rest of Windows. Wine is finally reaching
release 1.0 and may just let people run all their Windows software on
Linux.
Even though DirectX is very popular SDL has a number of advantages over
DirectX. SDL is MUCH easier to learn and much easier to use. SDL is
portable across several plaforms. SDL is open source so the bugs get
fixed and if you need to see how something actually works you can go
look at the code (which more of the people on this list should do ;-).
