SDL development status

SDL Development
21

We also need one that will work on Linux.

I do have a suggestion on this.
SDL1.2 already expects SDL headers to be in /SDL, right?
So why not put SDL1.3 headers in /SDL/1.3.0/
Then we just specify the required version to sdl-config and it knows what library to link and which headers to include. Alternatively, the developer can just specify manually (it’s not hard).------------------------
EM3 Nathaniel Fries, U.S. Navy

http://natefries.net/

22

Kudos to Sam, it’s really great news for the SDL community!
Hope all the best comes from this!
VittorioOn Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Sam Lantinga wrote:

I just wanted to let people know some exciting news and the current status
of SDL development.

I recently left Blizzard Entertainment to relax, spend time with family, and
explore some ideas to expand the Galaxy Gameworks business.

What this means, is that as of today, I am devoted 100% to the SDL 1.3
development, and am working out staffing needs and scheduling.

However, there is a huge amount of work that remains to be done, in terms of
Q/A, bug fixing, and community support.

If you would like to contribute, there are a number of ways you can help:

  • If you’re currently struggling with SDL 1.3, please report bugs to
    bugzilla and ask for help on the mailing list
  • If you’ve been holding off on touching SDL 1.3, please pretend it’s done,
    download it, and report bugs to bugzilla
  • If you’ve reported issues on the mailing list in the past, pretend they’re
    lost and re-report issues to the list and create entries for them in
    bugzilla

All of this will result in a huge influx of bugs and issues.? Please be
patient, helpful and persistent.? Community supported fixes are always
appreciated.

Here are links that will be helpful:
SDL 1.3 Documentation (work in progress - contact docs at libsdl.org to
contribute):
? http://wiki.libsdl.org
SDL 1.3 Migration Guide (thanks Sylvain!)
? http://wiki.libsdl.org/moin.cgi/MigrationGuide
SDL 1.3 Roadmap:
? http://wiki.libsdl.org/moin.cgi/Roadmap
SDL 1.3 PRERELEASE source code:
? http://www.libsdl.org/tmp/SDL-1.3.zip
Bugzilla:
? http://bugzilla.libsdl.org/
Mailing List:
? http://www.libsdl.org/mailing-list.php

Please note that the mailing list and the forums mirror each other, but
there is an additional spam prevention step required to post on the forums:
http://forums.libsdl.org/viewtopic.php?t=5973

Cheers!

? ? -Sam Lantinga, Founder and President, Galaxy Gameworks LLC

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

23

I’m going through the issues for Windows and it seems many of them are fixed but still open.------------------------
EM3 Nathaniel Fries, U.S. Navy

http://natefries.net/

24

I posted a perl script to the mailing list some time ago that handled
this quite nicely. I’ll see if I can find it.On 6 January 2011 09:59, Alex Barry <alex.barry at gmail.com> wrote:

Installing SDL 1.3 alongside a 1.2 install in any *nix system isn’t
difficult.? While doing ./configure before compiling, specify a different
prefix ( --prefix=/usr/local instead of /usr, for instance).? The reason
there is no official word on how to install them side-by-side is that Sam
isn’t sure if the install will be a naming convention (instead of libSDL.so,
maybe libSDL-1.3.so) or if it will be a directory issue (/usr/include/SDL to
/usr/include/SDL-1.3).

Personally, I like the idea of custom directories, and it’s simple to modify
a pkg-config file to point to a custom directory, so you won’t even have to
worry about it.

I don’t think there will be an official way to install 1.2 and 1.3 side by
side until we’re at the point of an official release, though.

Hopefully that helps you out a bit,
-Oz

25

Found it.

Here’s my original post:
http://lists.libsdl.org/pipermail/sdl-libsdl.org/2009-August/071664.html

And the script itself is attached.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed…
Name: renamesdl1.3.pl
Type: application/octet-stream
Size: 1777 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: http://lists.libsdl.org/pipermail/sdl-libsdl.org/attachments/20110106/76a3c21e/attachment.objOn 6 January 2011 20:36, Kenneth Bull <@Kenneth_Bull> wrote:

I posted a perl script to the mailing list some time ago that handled
this quite nicely. ?I’ll see if I can find it.

26

Yeah, I’m still mulling this over. The problem is not just SDL, it’s
also all the libraries that depend on SDL. For example, SDL_image at
the same version number can be built for both SDL 1.2 and SDL 1.3, and
I can see people wanting to install both simultaneously.

I sent e-mail to the distribution maintainers a year ago and never
heard anything back from them. Which unfortunately means I just have
to pick a method and watch people complain.

I’m definitely open to suggestions!On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Ren? Dudfield wrote:

Hi,

I think I’m happy with anything really… ?If nothing is done, then
every distro will do it differently. ?Maybe it’s best to consult the
various distribution packagers for SDL to see what they think.

Just for your information:

Python does it by having a separate directory for each version. ?eg,
/usr/lib/python2.6/
/usr/lib/python3.1/

/usr/include/python2.6/
/usr/include/python3.1/

I definitely think the distro packagers should be consulted - as they
probably know a lot about these things.

cheers,

On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Jonathan Dearborn wrote:

Can we agree on a de facto convention? ?That would at least get us somewhere
for now. ?Ren?, what’s your preference?
Jonny D

On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Alex Barry <alex.barry at gmail.com> wrote:

Installing SDL 1.3 alongside a 1.2 install in any *nix system isn’t
difficult.? While doing ./configure before compiling, specify a different
prefix ( --prefix=/usr/local instead of /usr, for instance).? The reason
there is no official word on how to install them side-by-side is that Sam
isn’t sure if the install will be a naming convention (instead of libSDL.so,
maybe libSDL-1.3.so) or if it will be a directory issue (/usr/include/SDL to
/usr/include/SDL-1.3).

Personally, I like the idea of custom directories, and it’s simple to
modify a pkg-config file to point to a custom directory, so you won’t even
have to worry about it.

I don’t think there will be an official way to install 1.2 and 1.3 side by
side until we’re at the point of an official release, though.

Hopefully that helps you out a bit,
-Oz

On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Ren? Dudfield wrote:

Hi,

This is wonderful (for the SDL community, you and your family
anyway… not so much for blizzard).

Installing 1.3 alongside 1.2 would be a big help for me and the pygame
project. ?Once they can both be installed at the same time, it will be
easier for everyone to get on with things.

cheers,

On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 8:30 AM, Sam Lantinga <@slouken> wrote:

I just wanted to let people know some exciting news and the current
status
of SDL development.

I recently left Blizzard Entertainment to relax, spend time with
family, and
explore some ideas to expand the Galaxy Gameworks business.

What this means, is that as of today, I am devoted 100% to the SDL 1.3
development, and am working out staffing needs and scheduling.

However, there is a huge amount of work that remains to be done, in
terms of
Q/A, bug fixing, and community support.

If you would like to contribute, there are a number of ways you can
help:

  • If you’re currently struggling with SDL 1.3, please report bugs to
    bugzilla and ask for help on the mailing list
  • If you’ve been holding off on touching SDL 1.3, please pretend it’s
    done,
    download it, and report bugs to bugzilla
  • If you’ve reported issues on the mailing list in the past, pretend
    they’re
    lost and re-report issues to the list and create entries for them in
    bugzilla

All of this will result in a huge influx of bugs and issues.? Please be
patient, helpful and persistent.? Community supported fixes are always
appreciated.

Here are links that will be helpful:
SDL 1.3 Documentation (work in progress - contact docs at libsdl.org to
contribute):
? http://wiki.libsdl.org
SDL 1.3 Migration Guide (thanks Sylvain!)
? http://wiki.libsdl.org/moin.cgi/MigrationGuide
SDL 1.3 Roadmap:
? http://wiki.libsdl.org/moin.cgi/Roadmap
SDL 1.3 PRERELEASE source code:
? http://www.libsdl.org/tmp/SDL-1.3.zip
Bugzilla:
? http://bugzilla.libsdl.org/
Mailing List:
? http://www.libsdl.org/mailing-list.php

Please note that the mailing list and the forums mirror each other, but
there is an additional spam prevention step required to post on the
forums:
http://forums.libsdl.org/viewtopic.php?t=5973

Cheers!

? ? -Sam Lantinga, Founder and President, Galaxy Gameworks LLC

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

–
? ? -Sam Lantinga, Founder and President, Galaxy Gameworks LLC

27

Hi,

Yeah, definitely for those too. As soon as a popular SDL 1.3 game is
released on linux people will want to package

A separate config binary might be very useful. eg, sdl-config13On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Sam Lantinga wrote:

Yeah, I’m still mulling this over. ?The problem is not just SDL, it’s
also all the libraries that depend on SDL. ?For example, SDL_image at
the same version number can be built for both SDL 1.2 and SDL 1.3, and
I can see people wanting to install both simultaneously.

I sent e-mail to the distribution maintainers a year ago and never
heard anything back from them. ?Which unfortunately means I just have
to pick a method and watch people complain.

I’m definitely open to suggestions!

On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Ren? Dudfield <@Rene_Dudfield> wrote:

Hi,

I think I’m happy with anything really… ?If nothing is done, then
every distro will do it differently. ?Maybe it’s best to consult the
various distribution packagers for SDL to see what they think.

Just for your information:

Python does it by having a separate directory for each version. ?eg,
/usr/lib/python2.6/
/usr/lib/python3.1/

/usr/include/python2.6/
/usr/include/python3.1/

I definitely think the distro packagers should be consulted - as they
probably know a lot about these things.

cheers,

On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Jonathan Dearborn wrote:

Can we agree on a de facto convention? ?That would at least get us somewhere
for now. ?Ren?, what’s your preference?
Jonny D

On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Alex Barry <alex.barry at gmail.com> wrote:

Installing SDL 1.3 alongside a 1.2 install in any *nix system isn’t
difficult.? While doing ./configure before compiling, specify a different
prefix ( --prefix=/usr/local instead of /usr, for instance).? The reason
there is no official word on how to install them side-by-side is that Sam
isn’t sure if the install will be a naming convention (instead of libSDL.so,
maybe libSDL-1.3.so) or if it will be a directory issue (/usr/include/SDL to
/usr/include/SDL-1.3).

Personally, I like the idea of custom directories, and it’s simple to
modify a pkg-config file to point to a custom directory, so you won’t even
have to worry about it.

I don’t think there will be an official way to install 1.2 and 1.3 side by
side until we’re at the point of an official release, though.

Hopefully that helps you out a bit,
-Oz

On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Ren? Dudfield <@Rene_Dudfield> wrote:

Hi,

This is wonderful (for the SDL community, you and your family
anyway… not so much for blizzard).

Installing 1.3 alongside 1.2 would be a big help for me and the pygame
project. ?Once they can both be installed at the same time, it will be
easier for everyone to get on with things.

cheers,

On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 8:30 AM, Sam Lantinga wrote:

I just wanted to let people know some exciting news and the current
status
of SDL development.

I recently left Blizzard Entertainment to relax, spend time with
family, and
explore some ideas to expand the Galaxy Gameworks business.

What this means, is that as of today, I am devoted 100% to the SDL 1.3
development, and am working out staffing needs and scheduling.

However, there is a huge amount of work that remains to be done, in
terms of
Q/A, bug fixing, and community support.

If you would like to contribute, there are a number of ways you can
help:

  • If you’re currently struggling with SDL 1.3, please report bugs to
    bugzilla and ask for help on the mailing list
  • If you’ve been holding off on touching SDL 1.3, please pretend it’s
    done,
    download it, and report bugs to bugzilla
  • If you’ve reported issues on the mailing list in the past, pretend
    they’re
    lost and re-report issues to the list and create entries for them in
    bugzilla

All of this will result in a huge influx of bugs and issues.? Please be
patient, helpful and persistent.? Community supported fixes are always
appreciated.

Here are links that will be helpful:
SDL 1.3 Documentation (work in progress - contact docs at libsdl.org to
contribute):
? http://wiki.libsdl.org
SDL 1.3 Migration Guide (thanks Sylvain!)
? http://wiki.libsdl.org/moin.cgi/MigrationGuide
SDL 1.3 Roadmap:
? http://wiki.libsdl.org/moin.cgi/Roadmap
SDL 1.3 PRERELEASE source code:
? http://www.libsdl.org/tmp/SDL-1.3.zip
Bugzilla:
? http://bugzilla.libsdl.org/
Mailing List:
? http://www.libsdl.org/mailing-list.php

Please note that the mailing list and the forums mirror each other, but
there is an additional spam prevention step required to post on the
forums:
http://forums.libsdl.org/viewtopic.php?t=5973

Cheers!

? ? -Sam Lantinga, Founder and President, Galaxy Gameworks LLC

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

–
? ? -Sam Lantinga, Founder and President, Galaxy Gameworks LLC

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

28

Sam Lantinga wrote:

Yeah, I’m still mulling this over. The problem is not just SDL, it’s
also all the libraries that depend on SDL. For example, SDL_image at
the same version number can be built for both SDL 1.2 and SDL 1.3, and
I can see people wanting to install both simultaneously.

I sent e-mail to the distribution maintainers a year ago and never
heard anything back from them. Which unfortunately means I just have
to pick a method and watch people complain.

I think there’s only two options:

  1. If the system supports dynamic library loading, use SDL’s functions for that. Then require the version to be specified in IMG_Init(), and let the library try to load the appropriate functions from that. If the dll/so/dylib can’t be found, throw an error. If the system does not support dynamic libraries (ie iPhone, Minix3 [at present]), then use the old method since they’ll need to statically link everything anyway.
    This increases the code size and complexity considerably, but the built size should not be much greater.
  2. Require an SDL_VER definition when building the library, and simply provide two binary releases of the library: one for SDL 1.2 and another for SDL 1.3 (and repeat the process for each successive new API). (alternatively: require the use of sdl-config to build)

I don’t really think either of them are ideal; the second one has the advantage of being idiot-safe (not quite idiot-proof, though), while the second has the advantage of keeping the code small and simple. But the first has the disadvantage of requiring dynamic linking, and the second has the disadvantage of requiring a different build between SDL API versions.------------------------
EM3 Nathaniel Fries, U.S. Navy

http://natefries.net/

29

Sam, it’s great to hear there’s a renewed interest on SDL development.
This days I had success in my zillionth attempt to link to SDL1.3 in MacOS, and upgrading to 1.3 was vital because I need multiple windows for my project.
So I’d like to contribute while I learn 1.3, is there any style guide to write on the wiki?
I’d like to add descriptions like telling briefly what a function does, and adding code samples.

30

Hmmm, I guess I might be a distribution maintainer that should say
something about this. So for Mac, we have quite a whirlwind of strange
options. All of them may involve developers to kind of know what’s
going on though. Since we use .frameworks on Mac, there is a built-in
versioning mechanism that kind-of-sort-of handles this case. Building
versioned frameworks is kind of a pain in the arse since there almost
no Xcode support for it. But once you have it, it actually might work.

If you look at the framework structure, there is a directory called
Versions inside which contains a subdirectory (usually named A) and a
symlink called Current. The idea is that you put multiple versions of
the actual library there. We might introduce a subdirectory called 1.3
which has all the 1.3 stuff. Leave A as 1.2 for backwards
compatibility.

Then there is a bunch of different layers of abstraction that kick in
if you built a Mac app correctly. For already built executables that
dynamically link, they know to use the full qualified/non-symlink path
to the library that was pointed to by Current when the executable was
built. So if you update the framework and the symlink changes, the
executable still safely links and invokes the legacy version avoiding
breakage.

But newly linked apps always pick the version linked to Current. So
generally they are required to use the new stuff.

It gets harder if developers want to build and link to the old version
of the framework. They must go into their frameworks and change the
symlinks themselves. And they must remember to change back the
symlinks themselves.

This technique also has the downside in code size. We would
effectively double the size of the framework we ship. End users are
free to purge the stuff they want themselves, but I expect most people
won’t feel comfortable enough to do so.

But I should also point out on the Mac that bundling the framework
inside your app (or library) is really the proper thing to do and
maybe we shouldn’t worry about this case at all. On Mac, developers
are expected to do this grunt work so end-users never have to deal
with DLL hell. So we could continue to name the framework “SDL” in
both cases, and force the developer to know which is which and how
their own SDL satellite libraries were compiled.

Also for SDL 1.3, I’m assuming we can drop 10.4 support which means we
can start using @rpath instead of @executable_path which makes it
easier to support embedding inside other libraries instead of just
applications. I have an example of this with the SDL_sound.framework I
built where I embedded an Ogg and Vorbis framework inside.

-EricOn 1/7/11, Nathaniel J Fries wrote:

Sam Lantinga wrote:

Yeah, I’m still mulling this over. The problem is not just SDL, it’s
also all the libraries that depend on SDL. For example, SDL_image at
the same version number can be built for both SDL 1.2 and SDL 1.3, and
I can see people wanting to install both simultaneously.

I sent e-mail to the distribution maintainers a year ago and never
heard anything back from them. Which unfortunately means I just have
to pick a method and watch people complain.

–
Beginning iPhone Games Development
http://playcontrol.net/iphonegamebook/

31

petruza wrote:

Sam, it’s great to hear there’s a renewed interest on SDL development.
This days I had success in my zillionth attempt to link to SDL1.3 in MacOS, and upgrading to 1.3 was vital because I need multiple windows for my project.
So I’d like to contribute while I learn 1.3, is there any style guide to write on the wiki?
I’d like to add descriptions like telling briefly what a function does, and adding code samples.

Style guide? I’d just use entries that already exist as a base. Sam should probably elaborate more, though.------------------------
EM3 Nathaniel Fries, U.S. Navy

http://natefries.net/

32

Absolutely, please contact Sheena, our awesome tech writer, at docs at libsdl.org

Thanks!On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:28 PM, petruza wrote:

Sam, it’s great to hear there’s a renewed interest on SDL development.
This days I had success in my zillionth attempt to link to SDL1.3 in MacOS,
and upgrading to 1.3 was vital because I need multiple windows for my
project.
So I’d like to contribute while I learn 1.3, is there any style guide to
write on the wiki?
I’d like to add descriptions like telling briefly what a function does, and
adding code samples.

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

–
? ? -Sam Lantinga, Founder and President, Galaxy Gameworks LLC

33

Just noticed this message…

All I can say is that it is a good move. SDL 1.3 is capable of
becoming a major (commercial) player in the cross platform game
development market. IMNSHO there are going to be siloed markets for
each each game console, and Windows, and there will be a cross
platform market for games that run everywhere else, including Mac OS X
and Windows. Being a middleware big dog in the cross platform market
is a very good place to be. Maybe you need to add support for SDL on
HTML 5…

Anyway, CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Let me know how I can help. I know I’ve kind of disappeared for a
while, but I check in from time to time, and you know my email
address.

Bob Pendleton

P.S.

I did notice that you are adding timestamps to events. This is a very
important feature and I am very glad to see you finally adding it.
Just remember that user defined events need a way to get valid
timestamps and that there are many valid cases where time stamped
events can arrive out of time order. The easiest thing to do is to
store events in a heap (the other meaning of heap) i.e. a priority
queue, to limit the chance of getting events from the past and the
future.On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 2:30 AM, Sam Lantinga wrote:

I just wanted to let people know some exciting news and the current status
of SDL development.

I recently left Blizzard Entertainment to relax, spend time with family, and
explore some ideas to expand the Galaxy Gameworks business.

What this means, is that as of today, I am devoted 100% to the SDL 1.3
development, and am working out staffing needs and scheduling.

However, there is a huge amount of work that remains to be done, in terms of
Q/A, bug fixing, and community support.

If you would like to contribute, there are a number of ways you can help:

  • If you’re currently struggling with SDL 1.3, please report bugs to
    bugzilla and ask for help on the mailing list
  • If you’ve been holding off on touching SDL 1.3, please pretend it’s done,
    download it, and report bugs to bugzilla
  • If you’ve reported issues on the mailing list in the past, pretend they’re
    lost and re-report issues to the list and create entries for them in
    bugzilla

All of this will result in a huge influx of bugs and issues.? Please be
patient, helpful and persistent.? Community supported fixes are always
appreciated.

Here are links that will be helpful:
SDL 1.3 Documentation (work in progress - contact docs at libsdl.org to
contribute):
? http://wiki.libsdl.org
SDL 1.3 Migration Guide (thanks Sylvain!)
? http://wiki.libsdl.org/moin.cgi/MigrationGuide
SDL 1.3 Roadmap:
? http://wiki.libsdl.org/moin.cgi/Roadmap
SDL 1.3 PRERELEASE source code:
? http://www.libsdl.org/tmp/SDL-1.3.zip
Bugzilla:
? http://bugzilla.libsdl.org/
Mailing List:
? http://www.libsdl.org/mailing-list.php

Please note that the mailing list and the forums mirror each other, but
there is an additional spam prevention step required to post on the forums:
http://forums.libsdl.org/viewtopic.php?t=5973

Cheers!

? ? -Sam Lantinga, Founder and President, Galaxy Gameworks LLC

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

–
±----------------------------------------------------------

34

Thanks! :slight_smile:

BTW, regarding timestamps on events, it’s actually kind of tricky. We would
probably need to establish a time base relative to the OS event timestamps,
for timestamp translation. I’m not sure exactly how to go about doing
that. I don’t really want to just grab the timestamp from the first event
and use that as the tick offset, but we might have to.On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Bob Pendleton wrote:

Just noticed this message…

All I can say is that it is a good move. SDL 1.3 is capable of
becoming a major (commercial) player in the cross platform game
development market. IMNSHO there are going to be siloed markets for
each each game console, and Windows, and there will be a cross
platform market for games that run everywhere else, including Mac OS X
and Windows. Being a middleware big dog in the cross platform market
is a very good place to be. Maybe you need to add support for SDL on
HTML 5…

Anyway, CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Let me know how I can help. I know I’ve kind of disappeared for a
while, but I check in from time to time, and you know my email
address.

Bob Pendleton

P.S.

I did notice that you are adding timestamps to events. This is a very
important feature and I am very glad to see you finally adding it.
Just remember that user defined events need a way to get valid
timestamps and that there are many valid cases where time stamped
events can arrive out of time order. The easiest thing to do is to
store events in a heap (the other meaning of heap) i.e. a priority
queue, to limit the chance of getting events from the past and the
future.

On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 2:30 AM, Sam Lantinga <@slouken> wrote:

I just wanted to let people know some exciting news and the current
status
of SDL development.

I recently left Blizzard Entertainment to relax, spend time with family,
and
explore some ideas to expand the Galaxy Gameworks business.

What this means, is that as of today, I am devoted 100% to the SDL 1.3
development, and am working out staffing needs and scheduling.

However, there is a huge amount of work that remains to be done, in terms
of
Q/A, bug fixing, and community support.

If you would like to contribute, there are a number of ways you can help:

  • If you’re currently struggling with SDL 1.3, please report bugs to
    bugzilla and ask for help on the mailing list
  • If you’ve been holding off on touching SDL 1.3, please pretend it’s
    done,
    download it, and report bugs to bugzilla
  • If you’ve reported issues on the mailing list in the past, pretend
    they’re
    lost and re-report issues to the list and create entries for them in
    bugzilla

All of this will result in a huge influx of bugs and issues. Please be
patient, helpful and persistent. Community supported fixes are always
appreciated.

Here are links that will be helpful:
SDL 1.3 Documentation (work in progress - contact docs at libsdl.org to
contribute):
http://wiki.libsdl.org
SDL 1.3 Migration Guide (thanks Sylvain!)
http://wiki.libsdl.org/moin.cgi/MigrationGuide
SDL 1.3 Roadmap:
http://wiki.libsdl.org/moin.cgi/Roadmap
SDL 1.3 PRERELEASE source code:
http://www.libsdl.org/tmp/SDL-1.3.zip
Bugzilla:
http://bugzilla.libsdl.org/
Mailing List:
http://www.libsdl.org/mailing-list.php

Please note that the mailing list and the forums mirror each other, but
there is an additional spam prevention step required to post on the
forums:
http://forums.libsdl.org/viewtopic.php?t=5973

Cheers!

-Sam Lantinga, Founder and President, Galaxy Gameworks LLC

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

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-Sam Lantinga, Founder and CEO, Galaxy Gameworks

35

Message-ID:
? ? ? ?<AANLkTi=8gnWL+bRWW01psrw65j-OvknSh083R6Hutz7z at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=“iso-8859-1”

Thanks! :slight_smile:

BTW, regarding timestamps on events, it’s actually kind of tricky. ?We would
probably need to establish a time base relative to the OS event timestamps,
for timestamp translation. ?I’m not sure exactly how to go about doing
that. ?I don’t really want to just grab the timestamp from the first event
and use that as the tick offset, but we might have to.

Is it practical to just use the time functions from the OS / Standard
C api? Or would that run into problems with cross-network protocols
such as XWindows, or even just time-accuracy problems?> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:45:36 -0800

From: Sam Lantinga
To: SDL Development List
Subject: Re: [SDL] SDL development status

36

The goal is to get the time the event was queued at the OS level, not the
time it was received by the SDL event system.On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Jared Maddox wrote:

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:45:36 -0800
From: Sam Lantinga <@slouken>
To: SDL Development List
Subject: Re: [SDL] SDL development status
Message-ID:
<AANLkTi=8gnWL+bRWW01psrw65j-OvknSh083R6Hutz7z at mail.gmail.com<8gnWL%2BbRWW01psrw65j-OvknSh083R6Hutz7z at mail.gmail.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=“iso-8859-1”

Thanks! :slight_smile:

BTW, regarding timestamps on events, it’s actually kind of tricky. We
would
probably need to establish a time base relative to the OS event
timestamps,
for timestamp translation. I’m not sure exactly how to go about doing
that. I don’t really want to just grab the timestamp from the first
event
and use that as the tick offset, but we might have to.

Is it practical to just use the time functions from the OS / Standard
C api? Or would that run into problems with cross-network protocols
such as XWindows, or even just time-accuracy problems?

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

–
-Sam Lantinga, Founder and CEO, Galaxy Gameworks

37

Hi,

a related note: for animations, physics, etc., you want to have monotonic time, i.e. make sure there are no negative time differences if the user changes system time or daylight savings kicks in. This also means that starting the clock at 0 on program start isn’t so bad :-).

Here’s a plattform-independent version of monotonic time: https://www.libavg.de/websvn/filedetails.php?repname=libavg&path=%2Ftrunk%2Flibavg%2Fsrc%2Fbase%2FTimeSource.cpp.

Cheers,

UliOn Feb 1, 2011, at 2:45 AM, Sam Lantinga wrote:

Thanks! :slight_smile:

BTW, regarding timestamps on events, it’s actually kind of tricky. We would probably need to establish a time base relative to the OS event timestamps, for timestamp translation. I’m not sure exactly how to go about doing that. I don’t really want to just grab the timestamp from the first event and use that as the tick offset, but we might have to.

On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Bob Pendleton wrote:
Just noticed this message…

All I can say is that it is a good move. SDL 1.3 is capable of
becoming a major (commercial) player in the cross platform game
development market. IMNSHO there are going to be siloed markets for
each each game console, and Windows, and there will be a cross
platform market for games that run everywhere else, including Mac OS X
and Windows. Being a middleware big dog in the cross platform market
is a very good place to be. Maybe you need to add support for SDL on
HTML 5…

Anyway, CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Let me know how I can help. I know I’ve kind of disappeared for a
while, but I check in from time to time, and you know my email
address.

Bob Pendleton

P.S.

I did notice that you are adding timestamps to events. This is a very
important feature and I am very glad to see you finally adding it.
Just remember that user defined events need a way to get valid
timestamps and that there are many valid cases where time stamped
events can arrive out of time order. The easiest thing to do is to
store events in a heap (the other meaning of heap) i.e. a priority
queue, to limit the chance of getting events from the past and the
future.

On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 2:30 AM, Sam Lantinga wrote:

I just wanted to let people know some exciting news and the current status
of SDL development.

I recently left Blizzard Entertainment to relax, spend time with family, and
explore some ideas to expand the Galaxy Gameworks business.

What this means, is that as of today, I am devoted 100% to the SDL 1.3
development, and am working out staffing needs and scheduling.

However, there is a huge amount of work that remains to be done, in terms of
Q/A, bug fixing, and community support.

If you would like to contribute, there are a number of ways you can help:

  • If you’re currently struggling with SDL 1.3, please report bugs to
    bugzilla and ask for help on the mailing list
  • If you’ve been holding off on touching SDL 1.3, please pretend it’s done,
    download it, and report bugs to bugzilla
  • If you’ve reported issues on the mailing list in the past, pretend they’re
    lost and re-report issues to the list and create entries for them in
    bugzilla

All of this will result in a huge influx of bugs and issues. Please be
patient, helpful and persistent. Community supported fixes are always
appreciated.

Here are links that will be helpful:
SDL 1.3 Documentation (work in progress - contact docs at libsdl.org to
contribute):
http://wiki.libsdl.org
SDL 1.3 Migration Guide (thanks Sylvain!)
http://wiki.libsdl.org/moin.cgi/MigrationGuide
SDL 1.3 Roadmap:
http://wiki.libsdl.org/moin.cgi/Roadmap
SDL 1.3 PRERELEASE source code:
http://www.libsdl.org/tmp/SDL-1.3.zip
Bugzilla:
http://bugzilla.libsdl.org/
Mailing List:
http://www.libsdl.org/mailing-list.php

Please note that the mailing list and the forums mirror each other, but
there is an additional spam prevention step required to post on the forums:
http://forums.libsdl.org/viewtopic.php?t=5973

Cheers!

-Sam Lantinga, Founder and President, Galaxy Gameworks LLC

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

–
±----------------------------------------------------------

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
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–
-Sam Lantinga, Founder and CEO, Galaxy Gameworks

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
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Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.

Ulrich von Zadow | +49-172-7872715
Jabber: @Ulrich_von_Zadow
Skype: uzadow

38

Hi,
a related note: for animations, physics, etc.,?you want to have monotonic
time, i.e. make sure there are no negative time differences if the user
changes system time or daylight savings kicks in. This also means that
starting the clock at 0 on program start isn’t so bad :-).

Message timestamps, at least on Windows, are monotonic (so long as
they don’t overflow), though they are measured from system start, not
program start. You can get this timestamp through GetMessageTime() or
the time field in the MSG structure. An overflow is easy to detect,
so the timestamp could be promoted to 64 bits instead of 32 and you
wouldn’t overflow that for eons.

Here’s a plattform-independent version of monotonic
time: https://www.libavg.de/websvn/filedetails.php?repname=libavg&path=%2Ftrunk%2Flibavg%2Fsrc%2Fbase%2FTimeSource.cpp.

You don’t need a platform independent implementation of monotonic time
for this since the rest of the event system is still platform
dependent.On 1 February 2011 04:43, Ulrich von Zadow wrote: