i talked to martin donlon.
here’s what he said:
Please, by all means. I think its a great idea.
Let me know if you need anything.
Hi,
on the sdl mailing list the community is once again asking for someone
to port the documentation to a wiki, so it can be updated easily.
i agreed to do that (i think the documentation is a very important
part of sdl and therefore should be kept up to date).
but i need your ok to use the current doc project content.
thanks in advance, Florian Hufsky
Great, you have permission from Donlon and I have permission from Sam.
Between the two of us we pretty much have it covered permission wise.
It seems that all we need to do is pick a wiki and get it set up on
libsdl.org.
Bob PendletonOn Wed, 2004-06-09 at 13:38, Florian Hufsky wrote:
On Jun 8, 2004, at 9:27 AM, Florian Hufsky wrote:
–
±-------------------------------------+
My vote is for PHPWiki - http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/
Tom Spilman wrote:>>Lets just get the wiki up, with whatever we
have for our current docs, and we can maintain a sense of
organization the just by staying active and on top of changes
that are made.
Yep. Just pick a good wiki implementation that has the features needed,
put it up, and give the link to this list. You don’t even need to add
content… The community will take over translating what’s already in the
docs over to the wiki.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: sdl-bounces+tom=sickheadgames.com at libsdl.org
[mailto:sdl-bounces+tom=sickheadgames.com at libsdl.org] On
Behalf Of Tyler Zesiger
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 1:30 PM
To: A list for developers using the SDL library. (includes
SDL-announce)
Subject: Re: [SDL] SDL documentation wiki
Tom Spilman wrote:
[snip]
There is little point to having a wiki if it’s closed to
community
contributions. All moderation can be done via the community
monitoring the recent change list.
Tom
I wholeheartedly agree. The “Doc Project” need not be so much
of a “project”. Lets just get the wiki up, with whatever we
have for our current docs, and we can maintain a sense of
organization the just by staying active and on top of changes
that are made.
It doesn’t seem like anyone is terribly interested in
building and maintaining a monolithic, authoritative set of
docs…So why try going down that path again?
-----Original Message-----
From: sdl-bounces+tom=sickheadgames.com at libsdl.org
[mailto:sdl-bounces+tom=sickheadgames.com at libsdl.org] On
Behalf Of Bob
Pendleton
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 1:11 PM
To: A list for developers using the SDL library. (includes
SDL-announce)
Subject: Re: [SDL] SDL documentation wiki
On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 11:55, Sam Lantinga wrote:
Bob Pendleton wrote:
"> For the love of god, won’t somebody PLEASE wiki the SDL docs?
I would be more than happy to do that.
"
Bob, I would be happy to have you create an SDL docs wiki
and help get
it set up on libsdl.org. My biggest concern is that we
have some way
of organizing it and generating documentation that can be put in
future SDL releases.
Ok, first I need a login on the machine so I can poke
around and find
out what is there. My guess is that you already have php and mysql
running on apache. What OS/Distro are you running? I’ll
look for tools
that allow the documents to be extracted into a “book”
format suitable
for inclusion as documentation. Hmmm… needs to extract as
pure HTML.
It would be nice to have a forum for discussion of the docs
as well as
the docs.
We need to register people who are going to modify the docs.
Do we need to moderate all changes and postings?
Whew… I just realized what all this entails. Me and my big mouth.
Oh well, can we start with the existing Docs? Or are their legal
problems with ownership? What license do you want to put on
the docs?
Feel free to tell me to make up my own mind on all these issues.
Bob Pendleton
See ya!
-Sam Lantinga, Software Engineer, Blizzard Entertainment
SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
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SDL mailing list
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http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
I’ve noticed that it’s not unusual to see wiki’s being run off-site of
the main project, by some enthusiastic third party. Being a wiki, it
seems that the “powers that be” have as much power over the wiki as they
need, to make changes and updates.
I agree completely. OTOH, Sam has offered to host it on libsdl.org. So,
why not just put it there?
Bob PendletonOn Wed, 2004-06-09 at 13:42, Tyler Zesiger wrote:
I agree that there shouldn’t be two wikis though.
Bob Pendleton wrote:
[snip]
I really don’t see any need to have two SDL doc wikies. I think having
one as part of libsdl.org is the best way to go.
Bob Pendleton
SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
–
±-------------------------------------+
good.
i’m still looking for wikis.
so far i have found 10 promising looking wikis.
i’ll look for some more and then check which meet our requirements,.
i think the biggest problem is the export function.>Great, you have permission from Donlon and I have permission from Sam.
Between the two of us we pretty much have it covered permission wise.
It seems that all we need to do is pick a wiki and get it set up on
libsdl.org.
Bob Pendleton
Bob Pendleton wrote:
Why bother dealing with all those issues? Why not just let the wiki be
the dynamic thing that it is? I’m sure anyone who downloads SDL will not
need a static version of the wiki’d docs, since they can just go to the
wiki itself. Let’s just keep it simple.
Sam specifically asked for the ability to pull static docs. So, I
included that as something I want the wiki to do.
I’m skeptical of that. If there were an easy to way to scrape the wiki
to include it in man pages or something, that would work, but it would
be odd to read a manpage version of a wiki. I don’t think anyone’s ever
done it before, but if the wiki is really well organized, it could work.
I strongly disagree with the notion of restricting access. If I read a
portion of the docs that don’t make sense to me, I’d like to be able to
note that so that someone can add a bit of clarification later. If we
want traditional, static docs, don’t bother with a wiki - They’re too
(two) different animals.
I wasn’t talking about restricted access. Just a registration so that
spambots can’t dump stuff into the wiki. As was report recently on /.
this is starting to be a problem.
Access to the list would be no more restricted than access to this list.
Bob Pendleton
OK, I can deal with that.
[snip]> On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 13:24, Tyler Zesiger wrote:
I just noticed that wakka wiki will spit out XML -
http://www.wakkawiki.com/WakkaFeatures
I still like PHPwiki better though. It’s much more mature, and the fact
that the maintainers bothered to make it standards-compliant XHTML says
a lot about their interest in perfecting it. If it had an XML feature,
it’d be perfect. Maybe fire off an email to the maintainers about it if
you decide PHPWiki is closest to what we want?
Florian Hufsky wrote:> good.
i’m still looking for wikis.
so far i have found 10 promising looking wikis.
i’ll look for some more and then check which meet our requirements,.
i think the biggest problem is the export function.
Great, you have permission from Donlon and I have permission from Sam.
Between the two of us we pretty much have it covered permission wise.
It seems that all we need to do is pick a wiki and get it set up on
libsdl.org.
Bob Pendleton
SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
it seems like phpwiki can be exported to html - a big plus.
Tyler Zesiger wrote:> My vote is for PHPWiki - http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/
I think my favorite feature of PHPWiki is you don’t have to use
CamelCase to make a link. How the heck are you supposed to link up
something like “SDL” or “SDL_net” that way? In PHPWiki, you just do
this: [[SDL]] or something similar. PHPWiki also supports registering
users, so the concerns about spambots are taken care of. Nice.
You mentioned that there were 10 or so other wikis you were considering.
PHPWiki is the one I like the most of the ones I know about - What are
the others you’re looking at?
Florian Hufsky wrote:> it seems like phpwiki can be exported to html - a big plus.
Tyler Zesiger wrote:
My vote is for PHPWiki - http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/
SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
it seems like phpwiki can be exported to html - a big plus
Using google it looks like there may be a utility “html2man” that can be
used to generate man pages, but I haven’t been able to find it. Anyone?
Bob PendletonOn Wed, 2004-06-09 at 14:24, Florian Hufsky wrote:
Tyler Zesiger wrote:
My vote is for PHPWiki - http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/
SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
–
±-------------------------------------+
after looking at the features of the wikis only wakkawikki and phpwiki
look interesting.
the others use other scripting languages, are too big, don’t support
wiki exporting/dumping etc.
but i think wakkawikki also can’t be dumped so phpwiki seems like the
way to go for me.
Tyler Zesiger wrote:> I think my favorite feature of PHPWiki is you don’t have to use
CamelCase to make a link. How the heck are you supposed to link up
something like “SDL” or “SDL_net” that way? In PHPWiki, you just do
this: [[SDL]] or something similar. PHPWiki also supports registering
users, so the concerns about spambots are taken care of. Nice.
You mentioned that there were 10 or so other wikis you were
considering. PHPWiki is the one I like the most of the ones I know
about - What are the others you’re looking at?
Florian Hufsky wrote:
it seems like phpwiki can be exported to html - a big plus.
Tyler Zesiger wrote:
My vote is for PHPWiki - http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/
SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
i found this
http://www.tug.org/tex-archive/fonts/utilities/ttf2pt1/scripts/html2man
but i don’t think that’s exactly what you’re looking for.
Bob Pendleton wrote:>On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 14:24, Florian Hufsky wrote:
it seems like phpwiki can be exported to html - a big plus
Using google it looks like there may be a utility “html2man” that can be
used to generate man pages, but I haven’t been able to find it. Anyone?
Bob Pendleton
Tyler Zesiger wrote:
My vote is for PHPWiki - http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/
SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
i found this
http://www.tug.org/tex-archive/fonts/utilities/ttf2pt1/scripts/html2man
but i don’t think that’s exactly what you’re looking for.
You’re right. That doesn’t do anything interesting.
Bob PendletonOn Wed, 2004-06-09 at 14:54, Florian Hufsky wrote:
Bob Pendleton wrote:
On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 14:24, Florian Hufsky wrote:
it seems like phpwiki can be exported to html - a big plus
Using google it looks like there may be a utility “html2man” that can be
used to generate man pages, but I haven’t been able to find it. Anyone?
Bob Pendleton
Tyler Zesiger wrote:
My vote is for PHPWiki - http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/
SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
–
±-------------------------------------+
Once the WiKi is up-and-running, I’ll volunteer to write some script or
program to process it’s specific formatting into man pages.
Unless, of course, somebody finds one that can dump into man pages already
- Silicon> ----- Original Message -----
From: bob@pendleton.com (Bob Pendleton)
To: "A list for developers using the SDL library. (includes SDL-announce)"
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [SDL] SDL documentation wiki
On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 14:54, Florian Hufsky wrote:
i found this
http://www.tug.org/tex-archive/fonts/utilities/ttf2pt1/scripts/html2man
but i don’t think that’s exactly what you’re looking for.
You’re right. That doesn’t do anything interesting.
Bob Pendleton
Bob Pendleton wrote:
On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 14:24, Florian Hufsky wrote:
it seems like phpwiki can be exported to html - a big plus
Using google it looks like there may be a utility “html2man” that can
be
used to generate man pages, but I haven’t been able to find it. Anyone?
Bob Pendleton
Tyler Zesiger wrote:
My vote is for PHPWiki - http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/
SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
–
±-------------------------------------+
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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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First off, you are free to use the contents of the doc project however
you want.
Secondly, converting the man pages is important and complicated. Man
page formatting is very limited so you have to be careful. A
distinction should be made between a reference page and everything else
in the wiki. A reference page is something that you eventually want
converted to convert into a man page. It describes a data structure
and/or one or more closely related functions. A reference page should
have the standard man page headings; Name, Synopsis, Description, etc.
Use of tables and lists needs to be restricted, tables within tables,
lists within tables, tables within lists, lists within lists, all that
kind of stuff will not translate well to man pages. If a simple enough
template is created and the contents of the pages is kept simple enough
then I’m sure one of the many cobbled together html2man scripts out
there will be able to produce a decent approximation.On Jun 9, 2004, at 1:05 PM, Bob Pendleton wrote:
On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 14:54, Florian Hufsky wrote:
i found this
http://www.tug.org/tex-archive/fonts/utilities/ttf2pt1/scripts/
html2man
but i don’t think that’s exactly what you’re looking for.
You’re right. That doesn’t do anything interesting.
Bob Pendleton
Bob Pendleton wrote:
On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 14:24, Florian Hufsky wrote:
it seems like phpwiki can be exported to html - a big plus
Using google it looks like there may be a utility “html2man” that
can be
used to generate man pages, but I haven’t been able to find it.
Anyone?
Bob Pendleton
Tyler Zesiger wrote:
My vote is for PHPWiki - http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/
SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
–
±-------------------------------------+
SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
–
Martin
http://akawaka.csn.ul.ie/blog.php
http://www.treyarch.com
Does anyone (Sam for example) have admin access to the SDL documentation wiki?
There is an abundance of immutable spam that no one can get rid of and
the wiki software is badly out of date. Normal users can’t delete
these pages because they are copies of immutable system pages.
Spammers get their messages in through page titles and comments.
Recent versions of MoinMoin have features like TextCHAs (
http://moinmo.in/HelpOnTextChas ) which help to avoid this sort of
thing. The macro syntax changed a while back, but not much, and the
documentation wiki barely uses them except in the index pages I’ve put
together for SDL 1.3.