SDL for iPhone / iTouch

Tim_Sefton · September 17, 2008, 3:48pm

Trying to find SDL for the iPhone / iTouch - anyone point me in the right
direction ?

Thanks.
Tim

William_Langford · September 17, 2008, 5:02pm

Trying to find SDL for the iPhone / iTouch - anyone point me in the right
direction ?

Thanks.
Tim

There is someone on list that is actively porting SDL to the iPhone/iTouch.
However, there are issues regarding the NDA required for the Apple SDK.
Try searching the mailing list history. Sadly, I don’t think there’s been
an update for a while.

-WillOn Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Tim Sefton wrote:

Holmes_Futrell · September 17, 2008, 5:07pm

Hello,

I was the one porting SDL 1.3 to iPhone – it was my Google Summer of
Code project. It’s true that there hasn’t been an update for a
while. This is both because of the NDA and because the GSoC program
is over, so I need to orient myself to more financially profitable
ventures.

It’s also true that the NDA has prevented the release of the majority
of the source code to the project. If you checkout the SDL trunk,
however, you’ll find the OpenGL ES Render Driver present, which may
help you (see src/video/SDL_glesrenderer.c).

All the best,

HolmesOn Sep 17, 2008, at 10:02 AM, Will Langford wrote:

On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Tim Sefton wrote:
Trying to find SDL for the iPhone / iTouch - anyone point me in the
right
direction ?

Thanks.
Tim

There is someone on list that is actively porting SDL to the iPhone/
iTouch. However, there are issues regarding the NDA required for
the Apple SDK. Try searching the mailing list history. Sadly, I
don’t think there’s been an update for a while.

-Will

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

Mason_Wheeler · September 17, 2008, 5:16pm

It’s also true that the NDA has prevented the release of the majority of the source code to the project. If you
checkout the SDL trunk, however, you’ll find the OpenGL ES Render Driver present, which may help you
(see src/video/SDL_glesrenderer.c).I was under the impression that the NDA about that was going to have expired by now. What happened?>----- Original Message ----
From: Holmes Futrell
Subject: Re: [SDL] SDL for iPhone / iTouch

Holmes_Futrell · September 17, 2008, 5:27pm

What happened was that everybody thought the NDA would be lifted when
the SDK came out of beta, and then for whatever reason Apple decided
not to lift the NDA. No explanation was given.

Really terrible, I know

HolmesOn Sep 17, 2008, at 10:16 AM, Mason Wheeler wrote:

----- Original Message ----
From: Holmes Futrell <@Holmes_Futrell>
Subject: Re: [SDL] SDL for iPhone / iTouch

It’s also true that the NDA has prevented the release of the
majority of the source code to the project. If you
checkout the SDL trunk, however, you’ll find the OpenGL ES Render
Driver present, which may help you
(see src/video/SDL_glesrenderer.c).
I was under the impression that the NDA about that was going to have
expired by now. What happened?

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

Tim_Sefton · September 17, 2008, 5:40pm

Why does the NDA for the SDK preclude the porting of SDL - can’t you use a
different tool then Apple’s SDK for compiling and loading ?

Tim_____

From: sdl-bounces@lists.libsdl.org [mailto:sdl-bounces at lists.libsdl.org] On
Behalf Of Holmes Futrell
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 1:27 PM
To: A list for developers using the SDL library. (includes SDL-announce)
Subject: Re: [SDL] SDL for iPhone / iTouch

What happened was that everybody thought the NDA would be lifted when the
SDK came out of beta, and then for whatever reason Apple decided not to lift
the NDA. No explanation was given.

Really terrible, I know

Holmes

On Sep 17, 2008, at 10:16 AM, Mason Wheeler wrote:

----- Original Message ----

From: Holmes Futrell
Subject: Re: [SDL] SDL for iPhone / iTouch

It’s also true that the NDA has prevented the release of the majority of
the source code to the project. If you
checkout the SDL trunk, however, you’ll find the OpenGL ES Render Driver
present, which may help you
(see src/video/SDL_glesrenderer.c).

I was under the impression that the NDA about that was going to have expired
by now. What happened?

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

William_Langford · September 17, 2008, 5:48pm

Why does the NDA for the SDK preclude the porting of SDL - can’t you use
a different tool then Apple’s SDK for compiling and loading ?

Tim

Porting SDL ? not an issue.

releasing / sharing your port… that’s an issue. And we can’t just
release a binary library for all to use – LGPL states sauce must be
obtainable or similar.

-WillOn Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Tim Sefton wrote:

Holmes_Futrell · September 17, 2008, 5:49pm

There is the possibility of using the iPhone Open Toolchain, but I’m
not familiar with the legal issues surrounding that or whether or not
it would be desirable.

HolmesOn Sep 17, 2008, at 10:40 AM, Tim Sefton wrote:

Why does the NDA for the SDK preclude the porting of SDL - can?t
you use a different tool then Apple?s SDK for compiling and loading ?

Tim

From: sdl-bounces at lists.libsdl.org [mailto:sdl-bounces at lists.libsdl.org
] On Behalf Of Holmes Futrell
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 1:27 PM
To: A list for developers using the SDL library. (includes SDL-
announce)
Subject: Re: [SDL] SDL for iPhone / iTouch

What happened was that everybody thought the NDA would be lifted
when the SDK came out of beta, and then for whatever reason Apple
decided not to lift the NDA. No explanation was given.

Really terrible, I know

Holmes

On Sep 17, 2008, at 10:16 AM, Mason Wheeler wrote:

----- Original Message ----
From: Holmes Futrell <@Holmes_Futrell>
Subject: Re: [SDL] SDL for iPhone / iTouch

It’s also true that the NDA has prevented the release of the
majority of the source code to the project. If you
checkout the SDL trunk, however, you’ll find the OpenGL ES Render
Driver present, which may help you
(see src/video/SDL_glesrenderer.c).
I was under the impression that the NDA about that was going to have
expired by now. What happened?

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

Tim_Sefton · September 17, 2008, 6:05pm

If I look at the SDL Hardware Whish list
(http://www.libsdl.org/hardware.php)

The only hardware that is rated as need = high is iPod touch________________________________________
From: sdl-bounces@lists.libsdl.org [mailto:sdl-bounces at lists.libsdl.org] On
Behalf Of Holmes Futrell
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 1:49 PM
To: A list for developers using the SDL library. (includes SDL-announce)
Subject: Re: [SDL] SDL for iPhone / iTouch

There is the possibility of using the iPhone Open Toolchain, but I’m not
familiar with the legal issues surrounding that or whether or not it would
be?desirable.

Holmes

On Sep 17, 2008, at 10:40 AM, Tim Sefton wrote:

Why does the NDA for the SDK preclude the porting of SDL ?- can?t you use a
different tool then Apple?s SDK for compiling and loading ?
?
Tim
?
?

From:?sdl-bounces at lists.libsdl.org [mailto:sdl-bounces at lists.libsdl.org]?On
Behalf Of?Holmes Futrell
Sent:?Wednesday, September 17, 2008 1:27 PM
To:?A list for developers using the SDL library. (includes SDL-announce)
Subject:?Re: [SDL] SDL for iPhone / iTouch
?
What happened was that everybody thought the NDA would be lifted when the
SDK came out of beta, and then for whatever reason Apple decided not to lift
the NDA. ?No explanation was given.
?
Really terrible, I know
?

Holmes
?
On Sep 17, 2008, at 10:16 AM, Mason Wheeler wrote:

----- Original Message ----
From: Holmes Futrell
Subject: Re: [SDL] SDL for iPhone / iTouch

It’s also true that the NDA has prevented the release of the majority of
the source code to the project. ?If you
checkout the SDL trunk, however, you’ll find the OpenGL ES Render Driver
present, which may help you
(see src/video/SDL_glesrenderer.c).
I was under the impression that the NDA about that was going to have expired
by now.? What happened?

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
?

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

icculus · September 18, 2008, 8:07am

Why does the NDA for the SDK preclude the porting of SDL - can?t you
use a different tool then Apple?s SDK for compiling and loading ?

It’s not the toolchain alone…the NDA covers the Cocoa Touch API, too.
Even if you pay for the license to build iPhone apps, you can’t publish
details about how you talk to the iPhone-specific APIs.

This is strange to me, but that’s how it is.

No one is really sure what’s going on. We’ve been in contact with Apple
Legal to see what’s going on, and we’re still not sure what the
timetable is for the NDA lifting.

As soon as the NDA is lifted, we’ll remove the password from the iphone
branch in Subversion and merge the changes into trunk.

–ryan.

infinite_labs · September 18, 2008, 9:33am

Even after this, there might be compliance issues with the LGPL
license and the way Apple implements dynamic loading of libraries in
iPhone OS (which I can’t obviously talk about on this list, as it –
again – is under NDA).

?On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 10:07 AM, Ryan C. Gordon wrote:

As soon as the NDA is lifted, we’ll remove the password from the iphone
branch in Subversion and merge the changes into trunk.

Paulo_Pinto · September 18, 2008, 10:30am

Knowing Apple I wonder if they will ever lift the NDA.–
Paulo

On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 10:07 AM, Ryan C. Gordon wrote:

Why does the NDA for the SDK preclude the porting of SDL - can’t you use

a different tool then Apple’s SDK for compiling and loading ?

It’s not the toolchain alone…the NDA covers the Cocoa Touch API, too.
Even if you pay for the license to build iPhone apps, you can’t publish
details about how you talk to the iPhone-specific APIs.

This is strange to me, but that’s how it is.

No one is really sure what’s going on. We’ve been in contact with Apple
Legal to see what’s going on, and we’re still not sure what the timetable is
for the NDA lifting.

As soon as the NDA is lifted, we’ll remove the password from the iphone
branch in Subversion and merge the changes into trunk.

–ryan.

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

Torsten_Giebl · September 18, 2008, 2:16pm

Hello !

Apple does a good job by letting coders
know, that when they sell something in the App-Store,
they get a fixed nr. of % back from the sells.

Other services like XBLA, Wiiware, PSN don’t tell this officially.

But on the other hand hiding an API is dumb.

CU

William_Langford · September 18, 2008, 2:29pm

But on the other hand hiding an API is dumb.

I kinda think it’s an umbrella for possible future legal actions.
Reactionary instead of preventionary. Obviously, those with mal-intent
will go ahead and break the NDA, etc – so that’s not gonna stop anything.
But as a possible way to bring a suit against someone being evil - it gives
them one more weapon in their arsenal.

Agreed, however - it is silly :).

-Will

Bill_Kendrick · September 18, 2008, 8:56pm

It’s not the toolchain alone…the NDA covers the Cocoa Touch API, too.
Even if you pay for the license to build iPhone apps, you can’t publish
details about how you talk to the iPhone-specific APIs.

Between the outcry for yanking apps (Podcaster or whatever) and this,
iPhone’s looking like pretty lame-duck in terms of being a platform to
bet on.

At least Verizon and those other carriers (who do BREW and J2ME) usually
tell you BEFORE you’ve spent 6 months developing an app, whether or not
they’ll actually want it. (Though sometimes they also change their minds
in the end. grumble)

I have to say, I’ve been downright spoiled by commodity PCs, Linux
(and SDL :^) ), and releasing my wares as Open Source.

> No one is really sure what's going on. We've been in contact with Apple > Legal to see what's going on, and we're still not sure what the > timetable is for the NDA lifting. > > As soon as the NDA is lifted, we'll remove the password from the iphone > branch in Subversion and merge the changes into trunk.

Well, good luck. It’d still be pretty cool to see, say, Tux Paint on iPhone,
but after all this, I’m caring less whether it ever happens. I certainly
won’t be buying an iPhone as my next phone.

Curmudgeonly,On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 04:07:23AM -0400, Ryan C. Gordon wrote:

–
-bill!
“Tux Paint” - free children’s drawing software for Windows / Mac OS X / Linux!
Download it today! http://www.tuxpaint.org/

Paulo_Pinto · September 19, 2008, 7:42am

I will also not.

Even though I dislike Symbian C++ and the DRM of the 9.x series. Symbian is
more open
to developers than Apple.–
Paulo

On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 10:56 PM, Bill Kendrick wrote:

On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 04:07:23AM -0400, Ryan C. Gordon wrote:

It’s not the toolchain alone…the NDA covers the Cocoa Touch API, too.
Even if you pay for the license to build iPhone apps, you can’t publish
details about how you talk to the iPhone-specific APIs.

Between the outcry for yanking apps (Podcaster or whatever) and this,
iPhone’s looking like pretty lame-duck in terms of being a platform to
bet on.

At least Verizon and those other carriers (who do BREW and J2ME) usually
tell you BEFORE you’ve spent 6 months developing an app, whether or not
they’ll actually want it. (Though sometimes they also change their minds
in the end. grumble)

I have to say, I’ve been downright spoiled by commodity PCs, Linux
(and SDL :^) ), and releasing my wares as Open Source.
> No one is really sure what's going on. We've been in contact with Apple > Legal to see what's going on, and we're still not sure what the > timetable is for the NDA lifting. > > As soon as the NDA is lifted, we'll remove the password from the iphone > branch in Subversion and merge the changes into trunk.
Well, good luck. It’d still be pretty cool to see, say, Tux Paint on
iPhone,
but after all this, I’m caring less whether it ever happens. I certainly
won’t be buying an iPhone as my next phone.

Curmudgeonly,

–
-bill!
“Tux Paint” - free children’s drawing software for Windows / Mac OS X /
Linux!
Download it today! http://www.tuxpaint.org/

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

William_Langford · September 19, 2008, 2:59pm

I will also not.

Even though I dislike Symbian C++ and the DRM of the 9.x series. Symbian is
more open
to developers than Apple.

Between the outcry for yanking apps (Podcaster or whatever) and this,
iPhone’s looking like pretty lame-duck in terms of being a platform to
bet on.

At least Verizon and those other carriers (who do BREW and J2ME) usually
tell you BEFORE you’ve spent 6 months developing an app, whether or not
they’ll actually want it. (Though sometimes they also change their minds
in the end. grumble)

While there are some idealogical differences with Apple concerning how
they’re running things… I do own an iPhone, and none of the apps I might
develop would collide with the … stance (??) … they’ve taken concerning
NDA and allowed applications. So they don’t allow apps that violate their
or their carrier’s TOS. That’s understandable, although I’d really wish I
had gotten ahold of the tethering app :). The NDA thing makes open source
on the more difficult side – I’m unsure if you’re able to release a
GPL/LGPL project while under the NDA… a “will release source as soon as
NDA is lifted” clause probably doesn’t fly. Undoubtedly, there might be the
thought of keeping the API under legal wraps to stop people from
distributing sauce of rejected apps… and those who have a developer’s
license from building it for their own use? Mildly exclusive club, tho.

Their decision to not allow products that compete with their own (or
possibly partner?) services is… mildly disturbing, agreed. Yet they do
allow some replication of functionality (ie: the different contact list apps
out there). I really do think a pre-screen option for a developer to layout
an app’s premise and feature list under NDA with apple to see if they’ll
allow it… is a decent idea.

-WillOn Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Paulo Pinto wrote:

Mason_Wheeler · September 19, 2008, 4:24pm

Their decision to not allow products that compete with their own (or possibly partner?) services is… mildly disturbing,
agreed. Yet they do allow some replication of functionality (ie: the different contact list apps out there). I really do
think a pre-screen option for a developer to layout an app’s premise and feature list under NDA with apple to see if
they’ll allow it… is a decent idea.

It’s more than mildly disturbing, it’s pure idiocy, verging on outright suicide on Apple’s part. When you make your phone into a full-featured computer capable of attracting the attention of platform development tools such as SDL, you need to stop thinking of it as a phone and start thinking of it as a computer. Ditch the “carrier” altogether, market it as a VOIP-enabled pocket computer, and let buyers pick up ISPs as their carriers and make their phone calls over a VOIP program. Then open the SDK up and let all the developers get their hands on it and build things for their “iPhone computer platform,” which will draw users. Not doing that is how Apple lost out on the PC market despite their products being superior to the Wintel alternative in literally every other way. Now they’re making the same mistake again. It’s kinda sad, no?>----- Original Message ----

From: Will Langford
Subject: Re: [SDL] SDL for iPhone / iTouch