SDL_mixer & streaming

AKHRES_Nader · September 6, 2009, 7:17pm

Hello,

When I load a music in SDL_mixer, is it possible to use streaming
instead of loading all data in memory?
I can’t figure it out in the documentation…
Is there any other SDL based lib with streaming feature in case
SDL_mixer doesn’t deal with this?

Nad

Eric_Wing · September 7, 2009, 5:35am

The music parts of SDL_mixer (e.g. Mix_LoadMUS and Mix_PlayMusic)
already do streaming.

See section 4.5 Music in the SDL_mixer documentation:
http://jcatki.no-ip.org:8080/SDL_mixer/SDL_mixer.htmlOn 9/6/09, AKHRES Nader <nader.akhres at laposte.net> wrote:

Hello,

When I load a music in SDL_mixer, is it possible to use streaming
instead of loading all data in memory?
I can’t figure it out in the documentation…
Is there any other SDL based lib with streaming feature in case
SDL_mixer doesn’t deal with this?

Nad

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

AKHRES_Nader · September 7, 2009, 7:08am

great news. It’s not clear on the documentation, it’s always said “load
a music file”…

Another point: what’s the best way to implement a playlist? I mean
without hearing any pause in between music files played? Using
Mix_HookMusicFinished?

ps: context is I’m switching from fmod to sdl mixer. I use small music
files representing several versions of chorus, verse,aso… from a music
played randomly to create diversity… with fmod I have a playlist
concept which helps do smooth transitions

E. Wing a ?crit :> The music parts of SDL_mixer (e.g. Mix_LoadMUS and Mix_PlayMusic)

already do streaming.

See section 4.5 Music in the SDL_mixer documentation:
http://jcatki.no-ip.org:8080/SDL_mixer/SDL_mixer.html

On 9/6/09, AKHRES Nader <@AKHRES_Nader> wrote:

Hello,

When I load a music in SDL_mixer, is it possible to use streaming
instead of loading all data in memory?
I can’t figure it out in the documentation…
Is there any other SDL based lib with streaming feature in case
SDL_mixer doesn’t deal with this?

Nad

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

SDL mailing list
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http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

Gabriel_Gambetta · September 7, 2009, 1:51pm

I just query Mix_PlayingMusic() in every main loop iteration and play a new
sequence if it returns 0. Works great (and I mean “thousands of players and
the Ubisoft QA process without any complaint” great)

–GabrielOn Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 4:08 AM, AKHRES Nader <nader.akhres at laposte.net>wrote:

great news. It’s not clear on the documentation, it’s always said “load a
music file”…

Another point: what’s the best way to implement a playlist? I mean without
hearing any pause in between music files played? Using
Mix_HookMusicFinished?

ps: context is I’m switching from fmod to sdl mixer. I use small music
files representing several versions of chorus, verse,aso… from a music
played randomly to create diversity… with fmod I have a playlist concept
which helps do smooth transitions

E. Wing a ?crit :

The music parts of SDL_mixer (e.g. Mix_LoadMUS and Mix_PlayMusic)

already do streaming.

See section 4.5 Music in the SDL_mixer documentation:
http://jcatki.no-ip.org:8080/SDL_mixer/SDL_mixer.html

On 9/6/09, AKHRES Nader <nader.akhres at laposte.net> wrote:

Hello,

When I load a music in SDL_mixer, is it possible to use streaming
instead of loading all data in memory?
I can’t figure it out in the documentation…
Is there any other SDL based lib with streaming feature in case
SDL_mixer doesn’t deal with this?

Nad

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

SDL mailing list
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http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

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AKHRES_Nader · September 7, 2009, 2:43pm

Hello Gabriel,
?
it depends on your use case
In my use case, that?s tiny bits of the same music and it must be ?sample precise? to not hear glitches?between let?s say ?verse 1? and ?chorus 2?. These ?music items? could be as small as 6 seconds length.
?
If you?re playing different musics in your case, it should work well because there?s no direct transitions needed?
Is it your use case?
?
Nad> Message du 07/09/09 15:52

De : "Gabriel Gambetta"
A : "A list for developers using the SDL library. (includes SDL-announce)"
Copie ? :
Objet : Re: [SDL] SDL_mixer & streaming

I just query Mix_PlayingMusic() in every main loop iteration and play a new sequence if it returns 0. Works great (and I mean “thousands of players and the Ubisoft QA process without any complaint” great)

–Gabriel

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 4:08 AM, AKHRES Nader wrote:
great news. It’s not clear on the documentation, it’s always said “load a music file”…

Another point: what’s the best way to implement a playlist? I mean without hearing any pause in between music files played? Using Mix_HookMusicFinished?

ps: context is I’m switching from fmod to sdl mixer. I use small music files representing several versions of chorus, verse,aso… from a music played randomly to create diversity… with fmod I have a playlist concept which helps do smooth transitions

E. Wing a ?crit :
The music parts of SDL_mixer (e.g. Mix_LoadMUS and Mix_PlayMusic)
already do streaming.

See section 4.5 Music in the SDL_mixer documentation:
http://jcatki.no-ip.org:8080/SDL_mixer/SDL_mixer.html

On 9/6/09, AKHRES Nader wrote:
?
Hello,

When I load a music in SDL_mixer, is it possible to use streaming
instead of loading all data in memory?
I can’t figure it out in the documentation…
Is there any other SDL based lib with streaming feature in case
SDL_mixer doesn’t deal with this?

Nad

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

? ?

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

?

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http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

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Gabriel_Gambetta · September 7, 2009, 5:27pm

Not exactly, but similar - we have around 12 30-second loops that play one
after another randomly. You can see it in action here :
http://www.sherlockgame.com Maybe it just doesn’t work for your case.

–GabrielOn Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 11:43 AM, nader.akhres at laposte.net < nader.akhres at laposte.net> wrote:

Hello Gabriel,

it depends on your use case

In my use case, that?s tiny bits of the same music and it must be ?sample
precise? to not hear glitches?between let?s say ?verse 1? and ?chorus 2?.
These ?music items? could be as small as 6 seconds length.

If you?re playing different musics in your case, it should work well
because there?s no direct transitions needed?

Is it your use case?

Nad

Message du 07/09/09 15:52
De : "Gabriel Gambetta"
A : "A list for developers using the SDL library. (includes
SDL-announce)"
Copie ? :
Objet : Re: [SDL] SDL_mixer & streaming

I just query Mix_PlayingMusic() in every main loop iteration and play a
new sequence if it returns 0. Works great (and I mean “thousands of players
and the Ubisoft QA process without any complaint” great)

–Gabriel

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 4:08 AM, AKHRES Nader <nader.akhres at laposte.net>wrote:

great news. It’s not clear on the documentation, it’s always said “load a
music file”…

Another point: what’s the best way to implement a playlist? I mean
without hearing any pause in between music files played? Using
Mix_HookMusicFinished?

ps: context is I’m switching from fmod to sdl mixer. I use small music
files representing several versions of chorus, verse,aso… from a music
played randomly to create diversity… with fmod I have a playlist concept
which helps do smooth transitions

E. Wing a ?crit :

The music parts of SDL_mixer (e.g. Mix_LoadMUS and Mix_PlayMusic)

already do streaming.

See section 4.5 Music in the SDL_mixer documentation:
http://jcatki.no-ip.org:8080/SDL_mixer/SDL_mixer.html

On 9/6/09, AKHRES Nader <nader.akhres at laposte.net> wrote:

Hello,

When I load a music in SDL_mixer, is it possible to use streaming
instead of loading all data in memory?
I can’t figure it out in the documentation…
Is there any other SDL based lib with streaming feature in case
SDL_mixer doesn’t deal with this?

Nad

SDL mailing list
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http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

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http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

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Andre_Leiradella · September 8, 2009, 1:11am

Maybe a better way to avoid glitches is playing music as Mix_Chunk:

Mix_Chunk sound[2]
sound[0] = load first piece of music as a Mix_Chunk
sound[1] = load second piece of music as a Mix_Chunk
next_sound = 1
play sound[0]
In your game loop:
Query if sound has finished playing.
If it has:
7.1. Play sound[next_sound]
7.2. next_sound ^= 1
7.2. Free sound[next_sound]
7.3. sound[next_sound] = load next piece of music

But then you have to load sounds asynchronously. And if you can play the
next sound in a callback called when the current sound finishes,
everything really should go smooth.

The rationale here is that playing MP3 or OGG might involve some setup
from the part of SDL_Mixer and the libraries that actually decode these
streams, and that this setup doesn’t exist or is negligible for Mix_Chunks.

Warning: Untested!

Cheers,

Andre

Gabriel Gambetta wrote:> Not exactly, but similar - we have around 12 30-second loops that play

one after another randomly. You can see it in action here :
http://www.sherlockgame.com Maybe it just doesn’t work for your case.

–Gabriel

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 11:43 AM, nader.akhres at laposte.net <mailto:nader.akhres at laposte.net> <nader.akhres at laposte.net <mailto:nader.akhres at laposte.net>> wrote:

Hello Gabriel,

 

it depends on your use case :-)

In my use case, that?s tiny bits of the same music and it must be
?sample precise? to not hear glitches?between let?s say ?verse 1?
and ?chorus 2?. These ?music items? could be as small as 6 seconds
length.

 

If you?re playing different musics in your case, it should work well
because there?s no direct transitions needed?

Is it your use case?

 

Nad





     > Message du 07/09/09 15:52
     > De : "Gabriel Gambetta"
     > A : "A list for developers using the SDL library. (includes
    SDL-announce)"
     > Copie ? :
     > Objet : Re: [SDL] SDL_mixer & streaming

     >
     > I just query Mix_PlayingMusic() in every main loop iteration
    and play a new sequence if it returns 0. Works great (and I mean
    "thousands of players and the Ubisoft QA process without any
    complaint" great)
     >
     > --Gabriel
     >
     >
     >

    On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 4:08 AM, AKHRES Nader <nader.akhres at laposte.net <mailto:nader.akhres at laposte.net>> wrote:
     >

        great news. It's not clear on the documentation, it's always
        said "load a music file"...
         >
         > Another point: what's the best way to implement a
        playlist? I mean without hearing any pause in between music
        files played? Using Mix_HookMusicFinished?
         >
         > ps: context is I'm switching from fmod to sdl mixer. I
        use small music files representing several versions of
        chorus, verse,aso... from a music played randomly to create
        diversity... with fmod I have a playlist concept which helps
        do smooth transitions
         >
         > E. Wing a ?crit :


         >

            The music parts of SDL_mixer (e.g. Mix_LoadMUS and
            Mix_PlayMusic)
             > already do streaming.
             >
             > See section 4.5 Music in the SDL_mixer documentation:
             > http://jcatki.no-ip.org:8080/SDL_mixer/SDL_mixer.html
             >
             >
             >
             > On 9/6/09, AKHRES Nader <nader.akhres at laposte.net <mailto:nader.akhres at laposte.net>> wrote:
             >  
             >

                Hello,
                 >
                 > When I load a music in SDL_mixer, is it possible
                to use streaming
                 > instead of loading all data in memory?
                 > I can't figure it out in the documentation...
                 > Is there any other SDL based lib with streaming
                feature in case
                 > SDL_mixer doesn't deal with this?
                 >
                 > Nad
                 >
                 > _______________________________________________
                 > SDL mailing list
                 > SDL at lists.libsdl.org <mailto:SDL at lists.libsdl.org>
                 > http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
                 >
                 >    
                 > 

            _______________________________________________
             > SDL mailing list
             > SDL at lists.libsdl.org <mailto:SDL at lists.libsdl.org>
             > http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
             >
             >
             >  
             > 


         > _______________________________________________
         > SDL mailing list
         > SDL at lists.libsdl.org <mailto:SDL at lists.libsdl.org>
         > http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
         > 


     > >
     > [ (pas de nom de fichier) (0.1 Ko) ]



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AKHRES_Nader · September 8, 2009, 9:33am

Hi Andre,

your approach is very similar from what I have done with success with fmod (within game loop was enough, frame rate of ).
But I would like to load mp3 and in streaming (this way I have no cost for loading at playtime). But I guess Mix_Chunkwon’t deal with it, am I right?

Nad> Message du 08/09/09 03:11

De : "Andre de Leiradella"
A : "A list for developers using the SDL library. (includes SDL-announce)"
Copie ? :
Objet : Re: [SDL] SDL_mixer & streaming

Maybe a better way to avoid glitches is playing music as Mix_Chunk:

Mix_Chunk sound[2]

sound[0] = load first piece of music as a Mix_Chunk

sound[1] = load second piece of music as a Mix_Chunk

next_sound = 1

play sound[0]

In your game loop:

Query if sound has finished playing.

If it has:
7.1. Play sound[next_sound]
7.2. next_sound ^= 1
7.2. Free sound[next_sound]
7.3. sound[next_sound] = load next piece of music

But then you have to load sounds asynchronously. And if you can play the
next sound in a callback called when the current sound finishes,
everything really should go smooth.

The rationale here is that playing MP3 or OGG might involve some setup
from the part of SDL_Mixer and the libraries that actually decode these
streams, and that this setup doesn’t exist or is negligible for Mix_Chunks.

Warning: Untested!

Cheers,

Andre

Gabriel Gambetta wrote:

Not exactly, but similar - we have around 12 30-second loops that play
one after another randomly. You can see it in action here :
http://www.sherlockgame.com Maybe it just doesn’t work for your case.

–Gabriel

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 11:43 AM, @AKHRES_Nader wrote:

Hello Gabriel,

it depends on your use case

In my use case, that?s tiny bits of the same music and it must be
?sample precise? to not hear glitches?between let?s say ?verse 1?
and ?chorus 2?. These ?music items? could be as small as 6 seconds
length.

If you?re playing different musics in your case, it should work well
because there?s no direct transitions needed?

Is it your use case?

Nad

Message du 07/09/09 15:52
De : "Gabriel Gambetta"
A : "A list for developers using the SDL library. (includes
SDL-announce)"
Copie ? :
Objet : Re: [SDL] SDL_mixer & streaming

I just query Mix_PlayingMusic() in every main loop iteration
and play a new sequence if it returns 0. Works great (and I mean
"thousands of players and the Ubisoft QA process without any
complaint" great)

–Gabriel

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 4:08 AM, AKHRES Nader wrote:

great news. It’s not clear on the documentation, it’s always
said “load a music file”…

Another point: what’s the best way to implement a
playlist? I mean without hearing any pause in between music
files played? Using Mix_HookMusicFinished?

ps: context is I’m switching from fmod to sdl mixer. I
use small music files representing several versions of
chorus, verse,aso… from a music played randomly to create
diversity… with fmod I have a playlist concept which helps
do smooth transitions

E. Wing a ?crit :

The music parts of SDL_mixer (e.g. Mix_LoadMUS and
Mix_PlayMusic)

already do streaming.

See section 4.5 Music in the SDL_mixer documentation:
http://jcatki.no-ip.org:8080/SDL_mixer/SDL_mixer.html

On 9/6/09, AKHRES Nader wrote:

Hello,

When I load a music in SDL_mixer, is it possible
to use streaming
instead of loading all data in memory?
I can’t figure it out in the documentation…
Is there any other SDL based lib with streaming
feature in case
SDL_mixer doesn’t deal with this?

Nad

SDL mailing list
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.

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Donny_Viszneki · September 8, 2009, 2:51pm

Mix_Chunk doesn’t really support streaming. You do realize that
SDL_mixer makes a distinction between “chunks” (sound clips for which
there can be an arbitrary number, and which cannot stream) and music
(of which there can be only one, and which does support streaming.)On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 5:33 AM, nader.akhres at laposte.net<nader.akhres at laposte.net> wrote:

your approach is very similar from what I have done with success with fmod
(within game loop was enough, frame rate of ).
But I would like to load mp3 and in streaming (this way I have no cost for
loading at playtime). But I guess Mix_Chunkwon’t deal with it, am I right?

–
http://codebad.com/

Mason_Wheeler · September 8, 2009, 2:59pm

I’ve always wondered about that one. As I understand it, the difference
between “sound” and “music” is that “music” is compressed but "sound"
isn’t. ( http://sdl.beuc.net/sdl.wiki/SDL_mixer_Overview ) That may have
made sense 10 years ago, but these days your sound effects are generally
MP3s or OGGs too. Also, this artificial distinction makes it very difficult to
cross-fade two BGM tracks.

Any good reason why it’s still in there?>----- Original Message ----

From: Donny Viszneki <donny.viszneki at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [SDL] SDL_mixer & streaming

On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 5:33 AM, nader.akhres at laposte.net<nader.akhres at laposte.net> wrote:

your approach is very similar from what I have done with success with fmod
(within game loop was enough, frame rate of ).
But I would like to load mp3 and in streaming (this way I have no cost for
loading at playtime). But I guess Mix_Chunkwon’t deal with it, am I right?

Mix_Chunk doesn’t really support streaming. You do realize that
SDL_mixer makes a distinction between “chunks” (sound clips for which
there can be an arbitrary number, and which cannot stream) and music
(of which there can be only one, and which does support streaming.)

Donny_Viszneki · September 8, 2009, 3:21pm

If we take “streaming” to mean "not immediately ready for mixing,"
then there is a one-to-one correlation in SDL_mixer’s sound
abstractions (“music” and “chunk”) of the property of potentially
being compressed in memory and the property of potentially being
streamed from some media that isn’t RAM.

This is and always will be a very reasonable correlation.

Sounds that get played and mixed a lot, and sounds which tend to be
short, are bad candidates for streaming, regardless of which
interpretation of “streaming” we use.

Sounds that tend to be short and of which there aren’t many (or even
more than one) are good candidates on-demand preparation of raw sound
data. In fact music could have been implemented on top of some
chunk-only SDL_mixer API from a parallel universe. Some music would be
instantiated; a streaming/decoder pipeline would be created for the
instance; sequentially chunks of music would be decoded into
Mix_chunks and handed off to the mixer like any other chunk.On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Mason Wheeler wrote:

I’ve always wondered about that one. ?As I understand it, the difference
between “sound” and “music” is that “music” is compressed but "sound"
isn’t. ( http://sdl.beuc.net/sdl.wiki/SDL_mixer_Overview ) ?That may have
made sense 10 years ago, but these days your sound effects are generally
MP3s or OGGs too. ?Also, this artificial distinction makes it very difficult to
cross-fade two BGM tracks.

Any good reason why it’s still in there?

–
http://codebad.com/

Andre_Leiradella · September 8, 2009, 4:54pm

data. In fact music could have been implemented on top of some
chunk-only SDL_mixer API from a parallel universe. Some music would be
instantiated; a streaming/decoder pipeline would be created for the
instance; sequentially chunks of music would be decoded into
Mix_chunks and handed off to the mixer like any other chunk.

AFAIK, that’s exactly what SDL_Mixer does. The difference is that it doesn’t
turn the music chunk into a Mix_Chunk, it directly mixes it along with other
chunks.

Cheers,

Andre________________________________________________________________
Mensagem enviada pelo Microlink Webmail 12.7.8p3

Andre_Leiradella · September 8, 2009, 4:58pm

Mix_Chunk doesn’t really support streaming. You do realize that
SDL_mixer makes a distinction between “chunks” (sound clips for which
there can be an arbitrary number, and which cannot stream) and music
(of which there can be only one, and which does support streaming.)

AFAIK (hum, two AFAIKs in a rwo, time to study SDL a bit more…) when you
read a MP3 or OGG as a Mix_Chunk, SDL_Mixer decodes the entire stream into
raw audio data and returns it as a Mix_Chunk, so you’re not streaming in
this case.

But my proposal would work either with MP3 files or WAV files, the important
think is to have the audio data ready to be played without any setup time,
including time to decode the first chunk of audio.

Cheers,

Andre________________________________________________________________
Mensagem enviada pelo Microlink Webmail 12.7.8p3

slouken · October 5, 2009, 2:52am

FYI, SDL_sound eliminates the distinction between short sound chunk
and streamed compressed music, and the plan at some point is to have
SDL_mixer switch to use it.

Patches welcome! :)On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Aleirade wrote:

Mix_Chunk doesn’t really support streaming. You do realize that
SDL_mixer makes a distinction between “chunks” (sound clips for which
there can be an arbitrary number, and which cannot stream) and music
(of which there can be only one, and which does support streaming.)

AFAIK (hum, two AFAIKs in a rwo, time to study SDL a bit more…) when you
read a MP3 or OGG as a Mix_Chunk, SDL_Mixer decodes the entire stream into
raw audio data and returns it as a Mix_Chunk, so you’re not streaming in
this case.

But my proposal would work either with MP3 files or WAV files, the important
think is to have the audio data ready to be played without any setup time,
including time to decode the first chunk of audio.

Cheers,

Andre

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