Slashdot.org

Do we think that SDL is ready to hit the big time?

Perhaps if Sam thinks it is, we could post a “Hey cool” to slashdot.org
and see what happens?

I certainly feel that excepting our lack of MacOS support, SDL is at the
point where it can kill Penguinplay etc…

njh

Do we think that SDL is ready to hit the big time?

Perhaps when 0.6 is released? DirectX in 0.6g doesn’t exactly qualify
as good promotion.

Perhaps if Sam thinks it is, we could post a “Hey cool” to slashdot.org
and see what happens?

I think I’ve already seen SDL mentioned on slashdot, not as a story
by its own, but in the comments following some other story…

I certainly feel that excepting our lack of MacOS support, SDL is at the
point where it can kill Penguinplay etc…

I’ve not looked into PenguinPlay much (or GGI, for that matter). Did
any of these support full-screen under Linux/X? If so, then there’s
something important which SDL currently lacks. Everybody loves DGA.

/EmilOn Tue, 28 Apr 1998 njh at cs.monash.edu.au wrote:

Perhaps when 0.6 is released? DirectX in 0.6g doesn’t exactly qualify
as good promotion.

No, I spose not…

I think I’ve already seen SDL mentioned on slashdot, not as a story
by its own, but in the comments following some other story…

Yeah a whole story would be a good way to say: “We have finished, write us
games!”.

I’ve not looked into PenguinPlay much (or GGI, for that matter). Did
any of these support full-screen under Linux/X? If so, then there’s
something important which SDL currently lacks. Everybody loves DGA.

DGA, DGA, DGA…! (Well, I’d love it, but I doubt it is supported under
linux-pmac; Let me rephrase that. It isn’t supported…)

njhOn Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Emil Brink wrote:

I think I’ve already seen SDL mentioned on slashdot, not as a story
by its own, but in the comments following some other story…

Yeah a whole story would be a good way to say: “We have finished, write us
games!”.

Indeed. But sometimes I get the feeling that much of Linux is about
always developing something; and a game-graphics API can sound like a
lot of fun. So I wouldn’t expect people to just drop their projects,
embrace SDL as the ruling API, and start writing games. That doesn’t
seem to be the way this community like to work…

I’ve not looked into PenguinPlay much (or GGI, for that matter). Did
any of these support full-screen under Linux/X? If so, then there’s
something important which SDL currently lacks. Everybody loves DGA.

DGA, DGA, DGA…! (Well, I’d love it, but I doubt it is supported under
linux-pmac; Let me rephrase that. It isn’t supported…)

Hm… Is there a special (or, better, a technical) reason why DGA
isn’t supported on PMac-hardware? Or is that just the way it is?

/EmilOn Tue, 28 Apr 1998 njh at cs.monash.edu.au wrote:

Indeed. But sometimes I get the feeling that much of Linux is about
always developing something; and a game-graphics API can sound like a
lot of fun. So I wouldn’t expect people to just drop their projects,
embrace SDL as the ruling API, and start writing games. That doesn’t
seem to be the way this community like to work…

Oh no, I agree entirely, otherwise it wouldn’t be the meritocracy it is!
However, having an article about it and discussion could a) lead us to new
ideas b) lead us to new programmers c) lead us to new games…

Hm… Is there a special (or, better, a technical) reason why DGA
isn’t supported on PMac-hardware? Or is that just the way it is?

Yup, the two reasons are the two reasons why most things that aren’t
implemented under linux aren’t implemented under linux: a) No / Little
data b) No one has time…

njhOn Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Emil Brink wrote:

Indeed. But sometimes I get the feeling that much of Linux is about
always developing something; and a game-graphics API can sound like a
lot of fun. So I wouldn’t expect people to just drop their projects,
embrace SDL as the ruling API, and start writing games. That doesn’t
seem to be the way this community like to work…

Oh no, I agree entirely, otherwise it wouldn’t be the meritocracy it is!
However, having an article about it and discussion could a) lead us to new
ideas b) lead us to new programmers c) lead us to new games…

True, and all those are Good Things, for sure! Let’s have ourselves
an article on slashdot. Only question now is “when?”.

Hm… Is there a special (or, better, a technical) reason why DGA
isn’t supported on PMac-hardware? Or is that just the way it is?

Yup, the two reasons are the two reasons why most things that aren’t
implemented under linux aren’t implemented under linux: a) No / Little
data b) No one has time…

OK. I guess this is where my very limited knowledge of DGA and its
implementation starts biting me. I would think that the DGA
functionality (which I think of as, more or less, “access to frame
buffer and display hardware in general”) is a subset of what the X
server already does, i.e., the code is already there in one form or
another.

/EmilOn Tue, 28 Apr 1998 njh at cs.monash.edu.au wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Emil Brink wrote:

njh at cs.monash.edu.au wrote:

I certainly feel that excepting our lack of MacOS support, SDL is at the
point where it can kill Penguinplay etc…

While I can’t say that I have followed PenguinPlay religiously, there
are
some seriously funky things going on in the networking department.

This I am sure could be ported though…–
Hasse Schougaard
@Hasse_Schougaard

OK. I guess this is where my very limited knowledge of DGA and its
implementation starts biting me. I would think that the DGA
functionality (which I think of as, more or less, “access to frame
buffer and display hardware in general”) is a subset of what the X
server already does, i.e., the code is already there in one form or
another.

Yes, if powermacs used XF86… currently we use Paul MacKerras’ (Akin to
linus torvalds in the linux-pmac community…) XPmac, which is being
supported by A. Tong until someone gets XFree86 working nicely.

njhOn Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Emil Brink wrote:

Do we think that SDL is ready to hit the big time?

Perhaps if Sam thinks it is, we could post a “Hey cool” to slashdot.org
and see what happens?
Mmm, I noticed SDL in slashdot. A long time a go there was an article
about game’s in linux.

I certainly feel that excepting our lack of MacOS support, SDL is at the
point where it can kill Penguinplay etc…
Penguinplay is also mentioned but what I realy like about SDL that it is
multi-platform. (solaris and linux works, window95 still doesn’t it’s get
an gpf in the standaard dll’s (still searching for the .h files)

Also Penguinplay has only an API and nothing more else what I can see…
:wink:

grt,

±----
| Beheer Commissaris | Homepage: http://www.il.fontys.nl/~jasper
| IGV Interlink | PGP-key: finger @Jasper_Berlijn |
| E-mail: @Jasper_Berlijn |
----+

DGA, DGA, DGA…! (Well, I’d love it, but I doubt it is supported under
linux-pmac; Let me rephrase that. It isn’t supported…)

I beleive that will be fixed very soon… Well, actually Xpmac is based
on XF86, so it shouldn’t be too hard to port it, and XF86_FBdev will be a
very likely DGA candidate.

Now, to go back to porting that SNES emulator to Linux/Pmac… (BTW, the
Pmac svgalib thing works better than my x86 svgalib… I should file a bug
report :slight_smile:

Michael Samuel,

Surf-Net City - Internet Cafe and Internet Service Providers
Phone: +61 3 9593-9977
E-Mail:
WWW: http://www.surfnetcity.com.au/~michael/On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 njh at cs.monash.edu.au wrote:

Well I miss screen resizing (under linux). So the library automaticly
switches form 1280x1024 to 640x480. It can be done in X but you have to be
root… Played with that and DGA a little bit…

grt,

  • JasperOn Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Emil Brink wrote:

I’ve not looked into PenguinPlay much (or GGI, for that matter). Did
any of these support full-screen under Linux/X? If so, then there’s
something important which SDL currently lacks. Everybody loves DGA.
±----
| Beheer Commissaris | Homepage: http://www.il.fontys.nl/~jasper
| IGV Interlink | PGP-key: finger @Jasper_Berlijn |
| E-mail: @Jasper_Berlijn |
----+

OK. I guess this is where my very limited knowledge of DGA and its
implementation starts biting me. I would think that the DGA
functionality (which I think of as, more or less, “access to frame
buffer and display hardware in general”) is a subset of what the X
server already does, i.e., the code is already there in one form or
another.

Yes, if powermacs used XF86… currently we use Paul MacKerras’ (Akin to
linus torvalds in the linux-pmac community…) XPmac, which is being
supported by A. Tong until someone gets XFree86 working nicely.

Arg. I still don’t get it. If you have an X server (any X server),
then clearly it must be doing the things you want to be able to do
through DGA, right? Or is this XPmac server not open-source (sounds
vagely insane)?

/EmilOn Tue, 28 Apr 1998 njh at cs.monash.edu.au wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Emil Brink wrote:

Hm… Is there a special (or, better, a technical) reason why DGA
isn’t supported on PMac-hardware? Or is that just the way it is?

I think it may have something to do with the fact, that we still don’t
have a 100% working compiler yet, or a 100% working libc, and only just
got console switching on our X server… Just a guess though :slight_smile:

Michael Samuel,

Surf-Net City - Internet Cafe and Internet Service Providers
Phone: +61 3 9593-9977
E-Mail:
WWW: http://www.surfnetcity.com.au/~michael/On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Emil Brink wrote:

Arg. I still don’t get it. If you have an X server (any X server),
then clearly it must be doing the things you want to be able to do
through DGA, right? Or is this XPmac server not open-source (sounds
vagely insane)?

AFAIK, XPmac doesn’t do resolution switching(it relies on the screen being
set up by the kernel graphics console), and no hardware accelleration.

:frowning:

Xpmac is open source, Apple isn’t.

:wink:

njhOn Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Emil Brink wrote:

It seems a lot of problems are to be had with getting
SDL to run on Linux-pmac. But honestly…how many people
out there are running Linux-pmac or MkLinux over BeOS PPC
which currently supports SDL? >:)

I’d be doing more with SDL now, if I didn’t have an OpenGL
game due for my graphics class in 3 weeks.

Best Regards,
David Sowsy

http://www.cs.uml.edu/~dsowsy/projects.html

AFAIK, XPmac doesn’t do resolution switching(it relies on the screen being
set up by the kernel graphics console), and no hardware accelleration.

Too bad. :frowning: Seems you people have a lot to look forward to (assuming
that work is being done on these things) with Linux on your hardware.

Xpmac is open source, Apple isn’t.

One reason not to buy Mac, at least in my opinion. But perhaps this
is neither the time nor the place for one of those silly religious
wars…

/EmilOn Tue, 28 Apr 1998 njh at cs.monash.edu.au wrote:

Too bad. :frowning: Seems you people have a lot to look forward to (assuming
that work is being done on these things) with Linux on your hardware.

Xpmac is open source, Apple isn’t.

One reason not to buy Mac, at least in my opinion.
Another reason not to buy Apple hardware and run an Apple OS, you mean.

But perhaps this
is neither the time nor the place for one of those silly religious
wars…
There’s always a time and place to openly slag the bastards at Apple.> /Emil

One reason not to buy Mac, at least in my opinion.
Another reason not to buy Apple hardware and run an Apple OS, you mean.

As a matter of fact, that is exactly what I mean, yes. :slight_smile:

But perhaps this
is neither the time nor the place for one of those silly religious
wars…
There’s always a time and place to openly slag the bastards at Apple.

Uh-oh. Here we go again.

/EmilOn Tue, 28 Apr 1998, David Sowsy wrote:

Perhaps when 0.6 is released? DirectX in 0.6g doesn’t exactly qualify
as good promotion.

No, but SDL 0.6 final does, and it’s coming soon.

I’m about to release SDL 0.6j, and except for DGA support and bug fixes,
I anticipate it as a feature freeze release.

Bang on it! :slight_smile:

I think I’ve already seen SDL mentioned on slashdot, not as a story
by its own, but in the comments following some other story…

Yup, that article sparked a really good Linux games discussion (It’s
linked on my “related links” page.)

I certainly feel that excepting our lack of MacOS support, SDL is at the
point where it can kill Penguinplay etc…

Thanks for the vote of confidence. :slight_smile:
There is one thing that SDL lacks, that Penguinplay has: network support.
This is mostly because

A.  I have my hands full with SDL proper
B.  Network code is generally portable.

I’ve not looked into PenguinPlay much (or GGI, for that matter). Did
any of these support full-screen under Linux/X? If so, then there’s
something important which SDL currently lacks. Everybody loves DGA.

Yes indeed. I am really looking forward to adding DGA support to SDL.
I have to solidify the code first though. :slight_smile:

See ya!
-Sam Lantinga (slouken at devolution.com)–
Author of Simple DirectMedia Layer -
http://www.devolution.com/~slouken/SDL/

Indeed. But sometimes I get the feeling that much of Linux is about
always developing something; and a game-graphics API can sound like a
lot of fun. So I wouldn’t expect people to just drop their projects,
embrace SDL as the ruling API, and start writing games. That doesn’t
seem to be the way this community like to work…

Yup. Rule by example is a good motto.

Write an API. Write/Port some kick-ass stuff with it.
Let everyone else use it.

See ya!
-Sam Lantinga (slouken at devolution.com)–
Author of Simple DirectMedia Layer -
http://www.devolution.com/~slouken/SDL/