To Bob Pendleton ->> Can you share your GL doc?

SDL Development
1

Hi Bob,

I am just a beginner and love 3D stuff but don’t know GL (OpenGL…)
I have lots of stuff to read (more than 4-5 books on OpenGL) but
couldn’t understand more than few pages. Sorry, but I am a lazy
programmer who believe in concentrating on doing new stuff rather
than understanding old complex ones. OpenGl functions alone are
scaring me a lot! And, please don’t tell me about GLUT and Open
Inventor!

I would like to learn 3D programming using SDL + OpenGL but there is
no complete documentation or “Know how to do it” on the same. You
said in a mail posted earlier that you are writing some stuff on
OpenGl. So, if you or any other guy want to share some REAL easy
stuff about OpenGL + SDL for a beginner like me, please help.

Any sample code is welcome too provided it isn’t boring enough :wink:

Thanks a lot.

Nayan

2

What kind of code do you want exactly? I get pretty bored at times writing
long endless code blocks that take quite some time to crystalize. So, to
take a break from that boring stuff, I can write small example programs
which would indulge me in some fancy stuff once in a while, and would also
help you out.

I don’t promise anything wild, but yes I can try as I said ;).

-Nishal.> ----- Original Message -----

From: nayanchoudhary@yahoo.com (Nayan Choudhary)
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 12:33 AM
Subject: [SDL] To Bob Pendleton ->> Can you share your GL doc?

Hi Bob,

I am just a beginner and love 3D stuff but don’t know GL (OpenGL…)
I have lots of stuff to read (more than 4-5 books on OpenGL) but
couldn’t understand more than few pages. Sorry, but I am a lazy
programmer who believe in concentrating on doing new stuff rather
than understanding old complex ones. OpenGl functions alone are
scaring me a lot! And, please don’t tell me about GLUT and Open
Inventor!

I would like to learn 3D programming using SDL + OpenGL but there is
no complete documentation or “Know how to do it” on the same. You
said in a mail posted earlier that you are writing some stuff on
OpenGl. So, if you or any other guy want to share some REAL easy
stuff about OpenGL + SDL for a beginner like me, please help.

Any sample code is welcome too provided it isn’t boring enough :wink:

Thanks a lot.

Nayan

SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

3

Nayan Choudhary wrote:

Hi Bob,

I am just a beginner and love 3D stuff but don’t know GL (OpenGL…)
I have lots of stuff to read (more than 4-5 books on OpenGL) but
couldn’t understand more than few pages. Sorry, but I am a lazy
programmer who believe in concentrating on doing new stuff rather
than understanding old complex ones. OpenGl functions alone are
scaring me a lot! And, please don’t tell me about GLUT and Open
Inventor!

I would like to learn 3D programming using SDL + OpenGL but there is
no complete documentation or “Know how to do it” on the same. You
said in a mail posted earlier that you are writing some stuff on
OpenGl. So, if you or any other guy want to share some REAL easy
stuff about OpenGL + SDL for a beginner like me, please help.

The nehe opengl tutorials are very good. They start from the begining
(draw a polygon) and go up to shadows & cel shading. The associated code
is ported to a variety of architectures, including SDL :
http://nehe.gamedev.net/

Stephane

4

Hi Bob,

I am just a beginner and love 3D stuff but don’t know GL (OpenGL…)
I have lots of stuff to read (more than 4-5 books on OpenGL) but
couldn’t understand more than few pages. Sorry, but I am a lazy
programmer who believe in concentrating on doing new stuff rather
than understanding old complex ones.

“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”

   - George Santayana

“If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants”

   - Sir Isaac Newton

If you don’t spend time learning the “old stuff” you will never under
stand the material well enough to do new stuff.

OpenGl functions alone are
scaring me a lot! And, please don’t tell me about GLUT and Open
Inventor!

I would like to learn 3D programming using SDL + OpenGL but there is
no complete documentation or “Know how to do it” on the same. You
said in a mail posted earlier that you are writing some stuff on
OpenGl. So, if you or any other guy want to share some REAL easy
stuff about OpenGL + SDL for a beginner like me, please help.

Any sample code is welcome too provided it isn’t boring enough :wink:

As I said, I am writing an article, actually two articles, on using
OpenGL with SDL. They will be published during the next few months.
It can take as long as a couple of months to write an article and it can
take a couple of more months to get it published. Usually It goes a lot
faster than that. If I send you the article before it is published it
doesn’t get published and I don’t get paid.

BTW, have you looked at the nehe OpenGL tutorials? They’re pretty good.

Thanks a lot.

Nayan

	Bob PendletonOn Tue, 2003-09-02 at 14:03, Nayan Choudhary wrote:

SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
–
±----------------------------------+

5

Thanks Bob for the nice quotes.
They and you, are absolutely correct, no doubt.

But,… They don’t help me. I do have NeHe docs about GL
and other stuff, but …

CAN ANYBODY TELL ME WHY GL CREATORS HAD TO WRITE SO CRYPTIC CODE AND
SCATTERED DOCUMENTATION???

I am so irritated by such replies… Please don’t think that I
haven’t tried the stuff you said. After 8 months into OpenGL, I am
not so far away from where I started. SDL is easy to pick up… and
the same I expect from OpenGL.
So, I am going to write some code for myself (and if u people want
it, post message for me on this forum only) but it can take a lot of
time. Based on OpenGL only, the classes will ease down the cryptic
stuff.

No problem about your docs. I will try to manage without them. Sorry
for disturbing you.

Anybody want to help me?
Nayan

— In libsdl at yahoogroups.com, Bob Pendleton wrote:> “Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”

   - George Santayana

“If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of
Giants”
- Sir Isaac Newton

If you don’t spend time learning the “old stuff” you will never
under stand the material well enough to do new stuff.

As I said, I am writing an article, actually two articles, on using
OpenGL with SDL. They will be published during the next few months.
It can take as long as a couple of months to write an article and
it can take a couple of more months to get it published. Usually
It goes a lot faster than that. If I send you the article before
it is published it doesn’t get published and I don’t get paid.

BTW, have you looked at the nehe OpenGL tutorials? They’re pretty
good.

  Bob Pendleton

±----------------------------------+

  • Bob Pendleton: independent writer +
  • and programmer. +
  • email: Bob at P… +
  • web: www.GameProgrammer.com +
    ±----------------------------------+
6

Thanks Stephane, but I have a HUGE collection of GL docs which
includes NeHe tutorials, codes and demos. Though they helped me a
little, they were less boring :wink:

Thanks, but it does not solve my problem.
Nayan

— In libsdl at yahoogroups.com, Stephane Marchesin
<stephane.marchesin at w…> wrote:

Nayan Choudhary wrote:

Hi Bob,

I am just a beginner and love 3D stuff but don’t know GL (OpenGL…)
I have lots of stuff to read (more than 4-5 books on OpenGL) but
couldn’t understand more than few pages. Sorry, but I am a lazy
programmer who believe in concentrating on doing new stuff rather
than understanding old complex ones. OpenGl functions alone are
scaring me a lot! And, please don’t tell me about GLUT and Open
Inventor!

I would like to learn 3D programming using SDL + OpenGL but there
is no complete documentation or “Know how to do it” on the same.
You said in a mail posted earlier that you are writing some stuff
on OpenGl. So, if you or any other guy want to share some REAL
easy stuff about OpenGL + SDL for a beginner like me, please help.

The nehe opengl tutorials are very good. They start from the
begining
(draw a polygon) and go up to shadows & cel shading. The
associated code> is ported to a variety of architectures, including SDL :
http://nehe.gamedev.net/

Stephane

7

Hi Nishal,

Thanks for taking interest in my problem. I have difficulty in
understanding OpenGL functions and “what they do”!! Though I have
some books but OpenGL programming is so lengthy and so cryptic to
me, I wish that I could write some C++ classes to ease the stuff
down to the level of SDL. I want to make them as easy as possible
with GREAT readability of code. But to do this, one must be
proficient in OpenGL, and that’s what I am not.

I don’t ask you to do everything for me, but yes, I would like to
ask you to tell me about some important function and structures with
the help of small code samples which MUST BE HEAVILY DOCUMENTED. U
c, documentation of each function is not what I have seen in the
sample codes that most of the programmers write. But of course,
exceptions are always there! :wink:

If you or anybody would like to help me in developing these classes,
I welcome you with deep gratitude.

Please help me.

Thanks,
Nayan

— “Nishal Thomas G.” wrote:

What kind of code do you want exactly? I get pretty bored at times
writing long endless code blocks that take quite some time to
crystalize. So, to take a break from that boring stuff, I can write
small example programs which would indulge me in some fancy stuff
once in a while, and would also help you out.
I don’t promise anything wild, but yes I can try as I said ;).

Nishal.> ----- Original Message -----

From: “Nayan Choudhary”
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 12:33 AM
Subject: [SDL] To Bob Pendleton ->> Can you share your GL doc?

Hi Bob,

I am just a beginner and love 3D stuff but don’t know GL
(OpenGL…)

I have lots of stuff to read (more than 4-5 books on OpenGL) but
couldn’t understand more than few pages. Sorry, but I am a lazy
programmer who believe in concentrating on doing new stuff rather
than understanding old complex ones. OpenGl functions alone are
scaring me a lot! And, please don’t tell me about GLUT and Open
Inventor!

I would like to learn 3D programming using SDL + OpenGL but
there is

no complete documentation or “Know how to do it” on the same. You
said in a mail posted earlier that you are writing some stuff on
OpenGl. So, if you or any other guy want to share some REAL
easy

stuff about OpenGL + SDL for a beginner like me, please help.

Any sample code is welcome too provided it isn’t boring enough ;-
)

Thanks a lot.

Nayan

8

Well maybe OpenGL is not for you. Have you looked GFX engines like OGRE?
This helps to make the code cleaner and besides all modern games are
build around an GFX / Game engine just because nobody want’s to
reinvent the wheel for every game. Making new GFX engine takes many
yeras of development from many coders, so a beginner might do oneself a
favor and just look game / GFX engines that already exists today and
which of these are looking like the most convenient solution to ones
needs. Then simply go through the examples of your choice and learn to
use the engine then you are ready to go.On Thursday 04 September 2003 21:55, Nayan Choudhary wrote:

Hi Nishal,

Thanks for taking interest in my problem. I have difficulty in
understanding OpenGL functions and “what they do”!! Though I have
some books but OpenGL programming is so lengthy and so cryptic to
me, I wish that I could write some C++ classes to ease the stuff
down to the level of SDL. I want to make them as easy as possible
with GREAT readability of code. But to do this, one must be
proficient in OpenGL, and that’s what I am not.

I don’t ask you to do everything for me, but yes, I would like to
ask you to tell me about some important function and structures with
the help of small code samples which MUST BE HEAVILY DOCUMENTED. U
c, documentation of each function is not what I have seen in the
sample codes that most of the programmers write. But of course,
exceptions are always there! :wink:

If you or anybody would like to help me in developing these classes,
I welcome you with deep gratitude.

Please help me.

9

Maybe you could try something easier than a 3d game for the beginning, like
a 2d game. Then come back to OpenGL after you have improved your programming
skills. At the beginning it’s always difficult to handle a lot of
structures… Keep programming and one day you will be able to master OpenGL
!

Julien> ----- Original Message -----

From: nayanchoudhary@yahoo.com (Nayan Choudhary)
To:
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [SDL] To Bob Pendleton ->> Can you share your GL doc?

Thanks Bob for the nice quotes.
They and you, are absolutely correct, no doubt.

But,… They don’t help me. I do have NeHe docs about GL
and other stuff, but …

CAN ANYBODY TELL ME WHY GL CREATORS HAD TO WRITE SO CRYPTIC CODE AND
SCATTERED DOCUMENTATION???

I am so irritated by such replies… Please don’t think that I
haven’t tried the stuff you said. After 8 months into OpenGL, I am
not so far away from where I started. SDL is easy to pick up… and
the same I expect from OpenGL.
So, I am going to write some code for myself (and if u people want
it, post message for me on this forum only) but it can take a lot of
time. Based on OpenGL only, the classes will ease down the cryptic
stuff.

No problem about your docs. I will try to manage without them. Sorry
for disturbing you.

Anybody want to help me?
Nayan

— In libsdl at yahoogroups.com, Bob Pendleton wrote:

“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”
- George Santayana

“If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of
Giants”
- Sir Isaac Newton

If you don’t spend time learning the “old stuff” you will never
under stand the material well enough to do new stuff.

As I said, I am writing an article, actually two articles, on using
OpenGL with SDL. They will be published during the next few months.
It can take as long as a couple of months to write an article and
it can take a couple of more months to get it published. Usually
It goes a lot faster than that. If I send you the article before
it is published it doesn’t get published and I don’t get paid.

BTW, have you looked at the nehe OpenGL tutorials? They’re pretty
good.

Bob Pendleton

±----------------------------------+

  • Bob Pendleton: independent writer +
  • and programmer. +
  • email: Bob at P… +
  • web: www.GameProgrammer.com +
    ±----------------------------------+

SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

10

Thanks Bob for the nice quotes.
They and you, are absolutely correct, no doubt.

But,… They don’t help me. I do have NeHe docs about GL
and other stuff, but …

CAN ANYBODY TELL ME WHY GL CREATORS HAD TO WRITE SO CRYPTIC CODE AND
SCATTERED DOCUMENTATION???

They didn’t write cryptic code or scattered documents. The subject is
simply that complex. If you have the “OpenGL Programming Guide” and the
"OpenGL Reference Manual" you pretty much have everything. You may not
be able to understand them, but you have it all right there in only
about 1500 pages of printed text.

I am so irritated by such replies… Please don’t think that I
haven’t tried the stuff you said. After 8 months into OpenGL, I am
not so far away from where I started. SDL is easy to pick up… and
the same I expect from OpenGL.

8 Months? You are this frustrated after only 8 months? I think your
expectations are a little bit off. This is not easy stuff to learn.

I’ve been doing graphics programming (off an on) for 30 years and I
still sometimes have to spend a month reading and researching and
writing test code before I can use some 3D graphics feature that I
haven’t seen before. :slight_smile: Go read “Computer Graphics, Principles and
Practice” by Foley, Van dam, et. al. after that you will feel much
better. :slight_smile: Depending on how much math you have it should take somewhere
between 3 months and 2 years to work through most of the book. Be
warned, it is not a book on OpenGL, it is a book on computer graphics.
Once you understand computer graphics then OpenGL makes lots of sense.

So, I am going to write some code for myself (and if u people want
it, post message for me on this forum only) but it can take a lot of
time. Based on OpenGL only, the classes will ease down the cryptic
stuff.

No problem about your docs. I will try to manage without them. Sorry
for disturbing you.

Like I said, when they are published I will tell the list about them.
You sound rather resentful that I won’t just give them to you right now.
Do you seriously expect people to put you ahead of themselves? Do you
really expect me to pass up a paycheck just to help you?

	Bob PendletonOn Thu, 2003-09-04 at 14:17, Nayan Choudhary wrote:

Anybody want to help me?
Nayan

— In libsdl at yahoogroups.com, Bob Pendleton wrote:

“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”
- George Santayana

“If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of
Giants”
- Sir Isaac Newton

If you don’t spend time learning the “old stuff” you will never
under stand the material well enough to do new stuff.

As I said, I am writing an article, actually two articles, on using
OpenGL with SDL. They will be published during the next few months.
It can take as long as a couple of months to write an article and
it can take a couple of more months to get it published. Usually
It goes a lot faster than that. If I send you the article before
it is published it doesn’t get published and I don’t get paid.

BTW, have you looked at the nehe OpenGL tutorials? They’re pretty
good.

  Bob Pendleton

±----------------------------------+

  • Bob Pendleton: independent writer +
  • and programmer. +
  • email: Bob at P… +
  • web: www.GameProgrammer.com +
    ±----------------------------------+

SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
–
±----------------------------------+

11

— Bob Pendleton wrote:

I’ve been doing graphics programming (off an on) for 30 years and
I still sometimes have to spend a month reading and researching and
writing test code before I can use some 3D graphics feature that I
haven’t seen before.

You’ve been doing graphics programming for comfortably longer than
I’ve been alive. This represents a totally unfair competative
advantage. Expect a visit from WTO lawyers.

30 YEARS? Gah. I’m still tweaking my blitting code…

                                                          NBarnes__________________________________

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

12

Anybody want to help me?
Nayan

Not sure where I got these link, maybe it was in this list:

http://tassadar.physics.auth.gr/~chameleon/OpenGL/The%20Red%20Book/
http://tassadar.physics.auth.gr/~chameleon/OpenGL/The%20Blue%20Book/

Regards,

Andre de Leiradella

13

Have you tried BlackBasic or any other more high-level game
programming languages/libraries? It is a good start IMHO!
(that’s where I begun…)

/Olof

Nayan Choudhary: “Re: [SDL] Stephane Marchesin ->> GL Doc” (2003-09-04…

#Thanks Stephane, but I have a HUGE collection of GL docs which
#includes NeHe tutorials, codes and demos. Though they helped me a
#little, they were less boring ;-)#
#Thanks, but it does not solve my problem.
#Nayan

#— In libsdl at yahoogroups.com, Stephane Marchesin
#<stephane.marchesin at w…> wrote:

#> Nayan Choudhary wrote:
#>>Hi Bob,
#>>
#>>I am just a beginner and love 3D stuff but don’t know GL (OpenGL…)
#>>I have lots of stuff to read (more than 4-5 books on OpenGL) but
#>>couldn’t understand more than few pages. Sorry, but I am a lazy
#>>programmer who believe in concentrating on doing new stuff rather
#>>than understanding old complex ones. OpenGl functions alone are
#>>scaring me a lot! And, please don’t tell me about GLUT and Open
#>>Inventor!
#>>
#>>I would like to learn 3D programming using SDL + OpenGL but there
#>>is no complete documentation or “Know how to do it” on the same.
#>>You said in a mail posted earlier that you are writing some stuff
#>>on OpenGl. So, if you or any other guy want to share some REAL
#>>easy stuff about OpenGL + SDL for a beginner like me, please help.
#>>
#> The nehe opengl tutorials are very good. They start from the
#begining
#> (draw a polygon) and go up to shadows & cel shading. The
#associated code
#> is ported to a variety of architectures, including SDL :
#> http://nehe.gamedev.net/
#>
#> Stephane

#_______________________________________________
#SDL mailing list
#SDL at libsdl.org
#http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

14

Sorry, that should’ve been “dark basic”, not black :wink:

http://darkbasic.thegamecreators.com/

/Olof

Olof Bjarnason: “Re: [SDL] Stephane Marchesin ->> GL Doc” (2003-09-05…

#Have you tried BlackBasic or any other more high-level game
#programming languages/libraries? It is a good start IMHO!
#(that’s where I begun…)#
#/Olof

Nayan Choudhary: “Re: [SDL] Stephane Marchesin ->> GL Doc” (2003-09-04…

##Thanks Stephane, but I have a HUGE collection of GL docs which
##includes NeHe tutorials, codes and demos. Though they helped me a
##little, they were less boring :wink:

##Thanks, but it does not solve my problem.
##Nayan

##— In libsdl at yahoogroups.com, Stephane Marchesin
##<stephane.marchesin at w…> wrote:

##> Nayan Choudhary wrote:
##>>Hi Bob,
##>>
##>>I am just a beginner and love 3D stuff but don’t know GL (OpenGL…)
##>>I have lots of stuff to read (more than 4-5 books on OpenGL) but
##>>couldn’t understand more than few pages. Sorry, but I am a lazy
##>>programmer who believe in concentrating on doing new stuff rather
##>>than understanding old complex ones. OpenGl functions alone are
##>>scaring me a lot! And, please don’t tell me about GLUT and Open
##>>Inventor!
##>>
##>>I would like to learn 3D programming using SDL + OpenGL but there
##>>is no complete documentation or “Know how to do it” on the same.
##>>You said in a mail posted earlier that you are writing some stuff
##>>on OpenGl. So, if you or any other guy want to share some REAL
##>>easy stuff about OpenGL + SDL for a beginner like me, please help.
##>>
##> The nehe opengl tutorials are very good. They start from the
##begining
##> (draw a polygon) and go up to shadows & cel shading. The
##associated code
##> is ported to a variety of architectures, including SDL :
##> http://nehe.gamedev.net/
##>
##> Stephane

##_______________________________________________
##SDL mailing list
##SDL at libsdl.org
##http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

#_______________________________________________
#SDL mailing list
#SDL at libsdl.org
#http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl