Hey all,
Anyone have a 360 gamepad working on windows with sdl?
My (not a real developer) understanding is that it requires XInput:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb173044(VS.85).aspx
Which isn’t the same as directx and thus SDL won’t work with it.
Is that really the case or is there some hack to make it work?
In the future I’d like to support the 360 gamepad out of the box on
ioquake3 windows/linux/mac with SDL.
it’ll be somewhat funny if I can only use the 360 gamepad with
ioquake3 on Linux/Mac and their reverse engineered drivers.-
Thanks,
Zachary Slater
@Zachary
2009/4/3 Zachary
Hey all,
Anyone have a 360 gamepad working on windows with sdl?
My (not a real developer) understanding is that it requires XInput:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb173044(VS.85).aspxhttp://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb173044(VS.85).aspx
Which isn’t the same as directx and thus SDL won’t work with it.
Is that really the case or is there some hack to make it work?
In the future I’d like to support the 360 gamepad out of the box on
ioquake3 windows/linux/mac with SDL.
it’ll be somewhat funny if I can only use the 360 gamepad with ioquake3 on
Linux/Mac and their reverse engineered drivers.
Thanks,
Zachary Slater
zachary at ioquake.org
SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
I believe the msdn docs state that you can use DInput for XInput
Controllers.
In fact I just searched whilst writing this, first hit being
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb173051(VS.85).aspx
"The Xbox 360 Controller is properly enumerated on DirectInput, and can be
used with the DirectInput APIs. However, some functionality provided by
XInput will be missing from the DirectInput implementation:"
I believe the msdn docs state that you can use DInput for XInput Controllers.
In fact I just searched whilst writing this, first hit being
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb173051(VS.85).aspx
"The Xbox 360 Controller is properly enumerated on DirectInput, and can
be used with the DirectInput APIs. However, some functionality provided
by XInput will be missing from the DirectInput implementation:"
Typical Microsoft behavior. When any open standard (including their own
DirectInput, apparently!) becomes widespread enough as to pose a
competitive threat to any market they’re in or want to be in, they create
their own proprietary version, declare it the new standard, and try to
get everyone to switch away. Just look at how many "Games For Windows"
games will work with an XBox 360 controller but not an ordinary
DirectInput-compatible gamepad.>From: liam mail <liam.list at googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [SDL] 360 gamepad on windows w/SDL?
2009/4/3 Mason Wheeler
I believe the msdn docs state that you can use DInput for XInput
Controllers.
In fact I just searched whilst writing this, first hit being
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb173051(VS.85).aspxhttp://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb173051(VS.85).aspx
"The Xbox 360 Controller is properly enumerated on DirectInput, and can
be used with the DirectInput APIs. However, some functionality provided
by XInput will be missing from the DirectInput implementation:"
Typical Microsoft behavior. When any open standard (including their own
DirectInput, apparently!) becomes widespread enough as to pose a
competitive threat to any market they’re in or want to be in, they create
their own proprietary version, declare it the new standard, and try to
get everyone to switch away. Just look at how many "Games For Windows"
games will work with an XBox 360 controller but not an ordinary
DirectInput-compatible gamepad.
SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
Did you read the second sentence from the link before you started your
Microsoft bashing?
"This document describes the differences between XInput and DirectInput
implementations of the Xbox 360 Controller and how you can support XInput
devices and legacy DirectInput devices at the same time."
DInput usage is not recommend for anything other than joysticks which are
not XBox360 controllers, the API has been marked as depreciated for quite
some time.> >From: liam mail <@liam_mail>
Subject: Re: [SDL] 360 gamepad on windows w/SDL?
That didn’t make sense, DirectInput was not an open standard in the first place.
Although the move to XInput does worry me. Does XInput only support
Xbox 360 controllers?On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 16:27, Mason Wheeler wrote:
Typical Microsoft behavior. ?When any open standard (including their own
DirectInput, apparently!) becomes widespread enough as to pose a
competitive threat to any market they’re in or want to be in, they create
their own proprietary version, declare it the new standard, and try to
get everyone to switch away. ?Just look at how many "Games For Windows"
games will work with an XBox 360 controller but not an ordinary
DirectInput-compatible gamepad.
–
Did you read the second sentence from the link before you started your Microsoft bashing?
Yep. Did you read the first sentence?
"XInput is an API that allows applications to receive input from the Xbox 360 Controller for Windows."
Not the (literally!) hundreds of other gamepads out there. Just the one from Microsoft.
“This document describes the differences between XInput and DirectInput
implementations of the Xbox 360 Controller and how you can support
XInput devices and legacy DirectInput devices at the same time.“
Gotta love that word, legacy.
”‘Legacy code’ often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling.” - Bjarne Stroustrup
DInput usage is not recommend for anything other than joysticks which are not XBox360 controllers,
the API has been marked as depreciated for quite some time.
Of course it has. Microsoft can’t make any money off an API they give away for free. It’s in
direct competition with their Xbox 360 controller, which is a piece of crap. And when it’s
possible to plug a Dual Shock controller–which has all the same features as a 360’s,
except it was actually designed with some real attention to detail so it doesn’t end up hurting
a user’s hands the way the 360’s does–into a PC and have it run through DirectInput, the
only thing to do is cut DirectInput off at the knees. First deprecate it and call it and all
the devices it supports “legacy,” then discontinue support in a few years.>From: liam mail <liam.list at googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [SDL] 360 gamepad on windows w/SDL?
That didn’t make sense, DirectInput was not an open standard in the first place.
While it wasn’t an “open standard” in the sense of being controlled by an
independent standards body, it was a freely published standard that any
hardware maker could implement and many did. How many different XInput
controllers do you see being sold?>----- Original Message ----
From: Simon Roby <simon.roby at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [SDL] 360 gamepad on windows w/SDL?
2009/4/3 Mason Wheeler
That didn’t make sense, DirectInput was not an open standard in the first
place.
While it wasn’t an “open standard” in the sense of being controlled by an
independent standards body, it was a freely published standard that any
hardware maker could implement and many did. How many different XInput
controllers do you see being sold?
SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
What is your problem?
If you want to be able to use controllers which are not 360 controllers then
you can either use DInput or Raw Input.
Problem solved, stop the incomprehensible bashing and get back on topic.> >----- Original Message ----
From: Simon Roby <simon.roby at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [SDL] 360 gamepad on windows w/SDL?
What is your problem?
…“incomprehensible bashing”…
My problem is that Microsoft has managed to set computer programming
and the industry in general back a couple decades with their business
practices. The problem is made worse by people who seem unable
to “comprehend” the damage being done and dismiss anyone talking
about it as just “bashing” and wish people like me would shut up so they
can get back to business as usual.>From: liam mail <liam.list at googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [SDL] 360 gamepad on windows w/SDL?
What is your problem?
…“incomprehensible bashing”…
My problem is that Microsoft has managed to set computer programming
and the industry in general back a couple decades with their business
practices. The problem is made worse by people who seem unable
to “comprehend” the damage being done and dismiss anyone talking
about it as just “bashing” and wish people like me would shut up so
they
can get back to business as usual.
SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
Hey, listen debian-fan, when you start taking showers and stop
dipping your beard into your soup and then drinking from that we can
talk.
But until then, lets drop the personal, and corporate, attacks. Nobody
here is
looking for a fight besides you.
I’ve worked for microsoft in the past and can assure you personally
that there were
no chicken heads being eaten nor virgins being de-virginized
(Certainly not in the game qa parts)
and/or sacrificed in the halls of the beast.
Chill out, and we all would like to get back to the business at hand
of libSDL which is what this mailing list is for.
I’m not much of a developer which is why I do not participate enough
on this mailing list, however I’ve been using SDL in various
projects for years. Orbital Eunuchs Sniper, Black Shades, ioquake3,
icculus.org/avp, all these great games which I’ve been pleased
as punch to be associated with use SDL and SDL has brought them to new
platforms.
You can make the argument that I’m some evil shill, and whatever, you
go ahead and do that. I don’t mind, in fact I welcome your
attempts at scrutinizing everything I say to look and see if my pants
are made out of money. But please for the love of christ take your
filthy comments off-list! Mail me personally if you have a problem
with me, Microsoft, whatever. If you want to write an amusing anecdote
about how evil Bill Gate$$ is then let me know and I can post it to
timedoctor.org.On Apr 3, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Mason Wheeler wrote:
From: liam mail <liam.list at googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [SDL] 360 gamepad on windows w/SDL?
Thanks,
Zachary Slater
@Zachary
Couldn’t agree more
Some people here should get to know game development gets done in real life,
before starting their religious fights.
The goal is to have a game available, on some platform. What platforms are
supported afterwards and how, is usually
an afterthought for many studios, and no amount of Microsoft bashing, or any
other company, will change that.–
Paulo
On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 12:07 AM, Zachary wrote:
On Apr 3, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Mason Wheeler wrote:
From: liam mail <liam.list at googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [SDL] 360 gamepad on windows w/SDL?
What is your problem?
…“incomprehensible bashing”…
My problem is that Microsoft has managed to set computer programming
and the industry in general back a couple decades with their business
practices. The problem is made worse by people who seem unable
to “comprehend” the damage being done and dismiss anyone talking
about it as just “bashing” and wish people like me would shut up so they
can get back to business as usual.
SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
Hey, listen debian-fan, when you start taking showers and stop
dipping your beard into your soup and then drinking from that we can talk.
But until then, lets drop the personal, and corporate, attacks. Nobody here
is
looking for a fight besides you.
I’ve worked for microsoft in the past and can assure you personally that
there were
no chicken heads being eaten nor virgins being de-virginized (Certainly not
in the game qa parts)
and/or sacrificed in the halls of the beast.
Chill out, and we all would like to get back to the business at hand of
libSDL which is what this mailing list is for.
I’m not much of a developer which is why I do not participate enough on
this mailing list, however I’ve been using SDL in various
projects for years. Orbital Eunuchs Sniper, Black Shades, ioquake3,
icculus.org/avp, all these great games which I’ve been pleased
as punch to be associated with use SDL and SDL has brought them to new
platforms.
You can make the argument that I’m some evil shill, and whatever, you go
ahead and do that. I don’t mind, in fact I welcome your
attempts at scrutinizing everything I say to look and see if my pants are
made out of money. But please for the love of christ take your
filthy comments off-list! Mail me personally if you have a problem with me,
Microsoft, whatever. If you want to write an amusing anecdote
about how evil Bill Gate$$ is then let me know and I can post it to
timedoctor.org.
Thanks,
Zachary Slater
zachary at ioquake.org
SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org