Hi,
Just wondering if someone as already created a PNG loader for
SDL. Since PNG understands alpha chanels, it’s a nice format.
Phil
Hi,
Just wondering if someone as already created a PNG loader for
SDL. Since PNG understands alpha chanels, it’s a nice format.Phil
I’m tired of receiving thousands of messages from people on the mailing list
always asking the same goddamn questions:
1- I need network, too dumb to code it myself
2- I need GUI, too lazy to code it myself
3- I need support for whatever format
The purpose of a developement mailing list is to gather coders to make the
lib better. Sure, suggestions here and there help, but why do the same people
always ask the same ludicrous questions ? Why don’t YOU code a PNG loader so
that everyone can benefit from it. Why don’t YOU code a GUI library that fits
YOUR needs ? Why don’t YOU make a goddamn Network layer interface, it’s so
easy ? Let’s not forget that SDL is open, and that, as the name implies, it
is supposed to be SIMPLE and DIRECT access to the MEDIA hardware. It’s really
good at that, so let’s not try to make it the new portable, slow and
complicated DirectX replacement some of you want (Phillipe Lavoie and
Stephane Magnenat seem to be the 2 worst of the species). If you can’t code
anything on your own, what’s the purpose of being a coder ??? Just my
pissed-off two cents. Don’t consider this flaming and DON’T FLAME BACK. I’m
just tired of always receiving the same crap in my mailbox everyday.
Regards,On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Lavoie Philippe wrote:
–
Tennessee Carmel-Veilleux (Coordonator of Digital Meltdown)
@Tennessee_Carmel-Vei (www.ameth.org/~veilleux) ICQ ID : 8604827
Support Linux ! (www.linux.org;www.gnu.org) 1.99$ CD->(www.cheapbytes.com)
||*|| This message was written in Canada / Ce message a ete ecrit au Canada
Hi,
Just wondering if someone as already created a PNG loader for
SDL. Since PNG understands alpha chanels, it’s a nice format.Phil
I’m tired of receiving thousands of messages from people on the mailing list
always asking the same goddamn questions:
[mucho snippage]
Someone needs to chill out a litte …
Anyway, it would be really easy to hack a png loader out of the gnu (I think
it’s gnu) libpng code. Ships with lotsa linux distribs. I don’t know the home
site right off, but I KNOW that it runs on win32 as well. Easy to use, etc.
Oh, yeah, PNG IS a great format. 
/devOn 30-Oct-98 Tennessee Carmel-Veilleux wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Lavoie Philippe wrote:
// David E. Vandewalle |Weinberg’s Law: If builders built
// vandewal at skyblue.com | buildings the way programmers wrote
// david.e.vandewalle at lmco.com | programs, then thefirst woodpecker that
// | came along would destroy civilization.
Tennessee Carmel-Veilleux writes:
< something about being pissed by my posts>
Since I can’t search the mailing list’s archive and that I don’t want
to reinvent the wheel. I’m stuck with posing a question like I did.
Integrating PNG won’t be a nightmare for me as I’ve already done it
for a matrix library of my own.
But since you are so good, you could probably tell me how else I could
have proceeded.
Phil
Lavoie Philippe wrote:
Tennessee Carmel-Veilleux writes:
< something about being pissed by my posts>
Since I can’t search the mailing list’s archive and that I don’t want
to reinvent the wheel. I’m stuck with posing a question like I did.Integrating PNG won’t be a nightmare for me as I’ve already done it
for a matrix library of my own.But since you are so good, you could probably tell me how else I could
have proceeded.
He’s overreacting. Ignore him. But use libpng. It’s cool. It rocks. Use
libpng. (These are not the droids you’re looking for). Use libpng. (These
are not the droids we’re looking for). Use libpng…
Peter
I think you mis-understood his intent. He asked if anybody has made a PNG
loader, he didn’t ask somebody to write one for him.
Share the code - http://www.gnu.org/On Fri, Oct 30, 1998 at 06:40:20PM -0500, Tennessee Carmel-Veilleux wrote:
–
– Michael Samuel
Tennessee Carmel-Veilleux wrote:
Hi,
Just wondering if someone as already created a PNG loader for
SDL. Since PNG understands alpha chanels, it’s a nice format.Phil
I’m tired of receiving thousands of messages from people on the mailing list
always asking the same goddamn questions:
1- I need network, too dumb to code it myself
2- I need GUI, too lazy to code it myself
3- I need support for whatever formatThe purpose of a developement mailing list is to gather coders to make the
lib better. Sure, suggestions here and there help, but why do the same people
always ask the same ludicrous questions ? Why don’t YOU code a PNG loader so
that everyone can benefit from it. Why don’t YOU code a GUI library that fits
YOUR needs ? Why don’t YOU make a goddamn Network layer interface, it’s so
easy ? Let’s not forget that SDL is open, and that, as the name implies, it
is supposed to be SIMPLE and DIRECT access to the MEDIA hardware. It’s really
good at that, so let’s not try to make it the new portable, slow and
complicated DirectX replacement some of you want (Phillipe Lavoie and
Stephane Magnenat seem to be the 2 worst of the species).
First Thing :
I HAVE coded something. I know it is not very big, very excited, but it works.
It is a fast line drawing procedure. I sentz it to Sam and said him he could do
anything he wants with it.
Second Thing :
I haven’t all the knowledge to do ALL myself, and it is stupid to recreate the
wheel, so discussion is the BEST.
Third Thing :
SDL will keep SIMPLe, it’s the reason all thoses things won’t be in it, but in
others libraries, so the programmer will have the possibility to choose.
Forth Thing :
A mailing list is a discussion list, if you are not interested in discussion,
just join the SDL announcement mailing list.
If you can’t code
anything on your own, what’s the purpose of being a coder ??? Just my
pissed-off two cents. Don’t consider this flaming and DON’T FLAME BACK. I’m
just tired of always receiving the same crap in my mailbox everyday.Regards,–
Tennessee Carmel-Veilleux (Coordonator of Digital Meltdown)
veilleux at ameth.org (www.ameth.org/~veilleux) ICQ ID : 8604827
Support Linux ! (www.linux.org;www.gnu.org) 1.99$ CD->(www.cheapbytes.com)
||*|| This message was written in Canada / Ce message a ete ecrit au Canada
Best regards,> On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Lavoie Philippe wrote:
–
Stephane Magnenat
stephane.magnenat at urbanet.ch
P.S. If all user of this list think like Tennessee, I’ll stop acting like I act,
but actually a lot of people seems happy of thoses discussion,I’ll go on.
but actually a lot of people seems happy of thoses discussion,I’ll go on.
I am happy with the discussions.
A monthly FAQ is probably in order at this time. I have yet to implement
SDL in anything, so I’m not the person for the job. However, I can give
ideas for what the FAQ should contain:
- The usual implementation details.
- List of add-ons, wrappers, and layers for SDL.
- A list of software that uses SDL.
- Optimization techniques.
- Things that won’t be done to SDL for performace reasons, or perhaps to
avoid going off on a tangent. e.i. Network support( why reinvent what both
Win95 and Linux/Unix implement quite well ), GUI support, etc.
Also, IMHO, SDL should stay away from developing a GUI or network support.
SDL stnds for Simple DirectMultiMedia Layer. Networking is not trully
multimedia, nor is a GUI. These are user interfaces to multimedia, and
should be third party so that Sam can focus on the core of SDL, fast
efficient graphics display. If someone wishes to see an add-on, wrapper,
or some other such nonsense, they should either develope it themselves, or
make a call to some generous soul.
Robert J. Sprawls @Robert_J_Sprawls
Tactical Dynamics http://home.att.net/~sprawlsrOn Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Sam Lantinga wrote:
but actually a lot of people seems happy of thoses discussion,I’ll go on.
I am happy with the discussions.
See ya!
-Sam Lantinga (slouken at devolution.com)–
Author of Simple DirectMedia Layer -
http://www.devolution.com/~slouken/SDL/
Robert J. Sprawls wrote:> On Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Sam Lantinga wrote:
but actually a lot of people seems happy of thoses discussion,I’ll go on.
I am happy with the discussions.
A monthly FAQ is probably in order at this time. I have yet to implement
SDL in anything, so I’m not the person for the job. However, I can give
ideas for what the FAQ should contain:
- The usual implementation details.
- List of add-ons, wrappers, and layers for SDL.
- A list of software that uses SDL.
- Optimization techniques.
- Things that won’t be done to SDL for performace reasons, or perhaps to
avoid going off on a tangent. e.i. Network support( why reinvent what both
Win95 and Linux/Unix implement quite well ), GUI support, etc.Also, IMHO, SDL should stay away from developing a GUI or network support.
SDL stnds for Simple DirectMultiMedia Layer. Networking is not trully
multimedia, nor is a GUI. These are user interfaces to multimedia, and
should be third party so that Sam can focus on the core of SDL, fast
efficient graphics display. If someone wishes to see an add-on, wrapper,
or some other such nonsense, they should either develope it themselves, or
make a call to some generous soul.Robert J. Sprawls sprawlsr at worldnet.att.net
Tactical Dynamics http://home.att.net/~sprawlsr
Ok, good idea.
For Network, I just propose an Implementation, so we could use the same code in
SDL for all plateform. What do you think about it ?
–
Stephane Magnenat
stephane.magnenat at urbanet.ch
Hi there…
/snip/
Also, IMHO, SDL should stay away from developing a GUI or network support.
SDL stnds for Simple DirectMultiMedia Layer. Networking is not trully
multimedia,
Networking is nonetheless essential to a game.
nor is a GUI.
A GUI toolkit is not essential to much. You have the suggestion people… Port
GDK to SDL, or port SDL to GTK+.
These are user interfaces to multimedia, and
should be third party so that Sam can focus on the core of SDL, fast
efficient graphics display.
Certainly they should be split of from the main SDL library. But networking for
example is essential game functionality.
Speaking about networking, no-one has mentioned modems yet. Anyone who cares, if
you want I implemented modem/serial support under linux d1x from v1.26 upwards -
there’s probably some code you can splurge off there (if and when you want
modem/serial code).
If someone wishes to see an add-on, wrapper,
or some other such nonsense, they should either develope it themselves, or
make a call to some generous soul.Robert J. Sprawls sprawlsr at worldnet.att.net
Tactical Dynamics http://home.att.net/~sprawlsr
Peter
Ok, good idea.
For Network, I just propose an Implementation, so we could use the same code in
SDL for all plateform. What do you think about it ?
There already is an implementation. It's called sockets. Almost
every Unix and variant uses them, MS implements socket slightly
differently to mesh with their Win95 system of handles. There is no need
to reinvent the wheel.
A furthar note, perhaps a game oriented wrapper may be desired,
but since games differ so widely, trying to create a general purpose
wrapper to cover all cases would slow things down. I did find once( I’ll
look for it ), a fairly simple game orientated game sockets library called
libgnet. I guess it was ok. I used it mainly for research material.
Robert J. Sprawls @Robert_J_Sprawls
Tactical Dynamics http://home.att.net/~sprawlsrOn Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Stiphane Magnenat wrote:
Hi there…
/snip/Also, IMHO, SDL should stay away from developing a GUI or network support.
SDL stnds for Simple DirectMultiMedia Layer. Networking is not trully
multimedia,Networking is nonetheless essential to a game.
Certainly they should be split of from the main SDL library. But networking for
example is essential game functionality.
Essential, but as I said in a previous post, attempting to create a do-all
general purpose game network lib is going to bloat and slow it down. It
would be in each developer’s best interest to learn socket programming and
TCP/IP and UDP programming. Also it would be suggested that developer’s
get the RFC’s that pertain to TCP/IP, UDP and such. I currently have every
RFC available. I’d post them to me webpage, but they’re collectively about
80meg total uncompressed. However, this also includes Unix RFCs as well.
Robert J. Sprawls @Robert_J_Sprawls
Tactical Dynamics http://home.att.net/~sprawlsrOn Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Peter Hawkins wrote:
Hi there…
Ho there
<snip/snip>
Also, IMHO, SDL should stay away from developing a GUI or network
support.SDL stnds for Simple DirectMultiMedia Layer. Networking is not trully
multimedia,Networking is nonetheless essential to a game.
It is and if you ask me - it’s really not so important if network
is gonna be directly inside SDL or in another library, it’s still
rock’n’roll to me…
May I suppose just to wait a day/week or two and look what Sam’s
proposing/showing and if not, simply try to start something and
have an api definition out for discussion.
I would vote for a simple and not-so-extremely-flexible and
fully portable version with function calls like
N_OpenConntectionTo( “krabbe.rhein-neckar.de” );
And as it’s not portable (windows!), let’s drop that regular file handle
stuff,
who needs to really fprintf() to a socket in a game.
nor is a GUI.
A GUI toolkit is not essential to much. You have the suggestion people…
Port
GDK to SDL, or port SDL to GTK+.
I thought we (at least most of us) considered GTK+ to be a little bit too
big and a big bit too unuseful to be ported to SDL - maybe we could
simply omit that word.
These are user interfaces to multimedia, and
should be third party so that Sam can focus on the core of SDL, fast
Well third party sounds a little strange but I certainly think Sam should
focus
on the core but on not-really-in-the-scope things like GUI.
May I propose one more something? How about simply starting an easy
graphics drawing library on top of SDL, simple things like lines (we could
even use St?phane’s super-fast algorithm or just use Bresenham
screen clearing and most importantly sprite putting (in fast assembler so
not everyone has to code that oneself). Later, fonts could follow although
this might be too application-specific again (no I never used Borland’s
BGI vector text functions in a game). AND we should always stay small
and fully portable. I would actually suppose to do that more or less without
the need of Sam doing everything for us. So how about it?
Certainly they should be split of from the main SDL library. But networking
for
example is essential game functionality.Speaking about networking, no-one has mentioned modems yet. Anyone who
cares, if
you want I implemented modem/serial support under linux d1x from v1.26
upwards -
there’s probably some code you can splurge off there (if and when you want
modem/serial code).
That is quite doable but should be done later, it’s simply a waste of time
considering all the other important things on the wishlist (portable, simple
tcp/udp/ip !).
If someone wishes to see an add-on, wrapper,
or some other such nonsense, they should either develope it themselves,
ormake a call to some generous soul
.
Hey, anyone want a cool PCX loader?
:-]
Paulus (@Paulus_Esterhazy)
Robert J. Sprawls wrote:> On Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Stiphane Magnenat wrote:
Ok, good idea.
For Network, I just propose an Implementation, so we could use the same code in
SDL for all plateform. What do you think about it ?There already is an implementation. It's called sockets. Almostevery Unix and variant uses them, MS implements socket slightly
differently to mesh with their Win95 system of handles. There is no need
to reinvent the wheel.A furthar note, perhaps a game oriented wrapper may be desired,but since games differ so widely, trying to create a general purpose
wrapper to cover all cases would slow things down. I did find once( I’ll
look for it ), a fairly simple game orientated game sockets library called
libgnet. I guess it was ok. I used it mainly for research material.Robert J. Sprawls sprawlsr at worldnet.att.net
Tactical Dynamics http://home.att.net/~sprawlsr
Ok, I understand the problem, but what I propose is just to comment one wrapper, and
guve it with SDL for free, because I think it is VERY improtant to be able to have
source code that is plateform independent.
–
Stephane Magnenat
stephane.magnenat at urbanet.ch
There already is an implementation. It's called sockets. Almostevery Unix and variant uses them, MS implements socket slightly
differently to mesh with their Win95 system of handles. There is no need
to reinvent the wheel.
Ok, I understand the problem, but what I propose is just to comment one wrapper, and
guve it with SDL for free, because I think it is VERY improtant to be able to have
source code that is plateform independent.
Sockets under Unix is all similar. No need to create a wrapper. However,
Win95 is slightly different. I can’t remember how, as Watcom C/++ used
almost purely on-line CD help and I don’t run M$-Windows anymore, BUT, it
shouldn’t be that hard. All someone has to do is compare Win95’s
implementation of sockets, with Linux’s implementation of sockets and find
the common ground, and the differences. I would if I could, but I do not
run Windows anymore. I hardly run X11 as most of my work can be done from
the commandline, which I prefer to a GUI.
Robert J. Sprawls @Robert_J_Sprawls
Tactical Dynamics http://home.att.net/~sprawlsrOn Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Stiphane Magnenat wrote:
All someone has to do is compare Win95’s
implementation of sockets, with Linux’s implementation of sockets and find
the common ground, and the differences.
I’m doing it now, folks, no worries.
See ya!
-Sam Lantinga (slouken at devolution.com)–
Author of Simple DirectMedia Layer -
http://www.devolution.com/~slouken/SDL/
Get me off this crazy list!
-Dave
// “If there is a course curriculum for a subject, many morons have
// already done the nasty problem you are currently tortured with.” -Me
// http://www.cs.uml.edu/~dsowsy
May I propose one more something? How about simply starting an easy
graphics drawing library on top of SDL, simple things like lines (we could
even use St?phane’s super-fast algorithm or just use Bresenham
This is the sort of thing that can be discussed fully in the new list
(being created tonight, hopefully)