Game Loop?

I don’t wish to spam this list with generic game programming questions.
But everyone here seems so keen, I wondered if you might be interested
in going over something I’ve been pondering, in email off this list.

I’ve been considering the timing of the main game loop, and how it
relates to frame drawing and distributed simulation in multiplayer
games. Pages 381-5 of Rollings/Morris’ Game Architecture and Design talk
about coupled, semi-decoupled, and fully-decoupled game loops. I’m
interested in applying these ideas to RTS games, and wondered if my
ideas were sound (and typical), or way off the mark.

If anyone is interested, send me an email and I’ll formulate my thoughts
into a coherent discussion-starter.

PS: Is there any desire for a more general game development discussion
forum, very high signal-to-noise, ideally consisting of only people
actually making games? I know I’d like one…–
Marc A. Lepage
http://www.antimeta.com/
Minion open source game, RTS game programming, etc.

I’m interested in both the forum as well as the current topic.
–BrianOn Sat, 29 Jan 2000, Marc Lepage wrote:

I don’t wish to spam this list with generic game programming questions.
But everyone here seems so keen, I wondered if you might be interested
in going over something I’ve been pondering, in email off this list.

I’ve been considering the timing of the main game loop, and how it
relates to frame drawing and distributed simulation in multiplayer
games. Pages 381-5 of Rollings/Morris’ Game Architecture and Design talk
about coupled, semi-decoupled, and fully-decoupled game loops. I’m
interested in applying these ideas to RTS games, and wondered if my
ideas were sound (and typical), or way off the mark.

If anyone is interested, send me an email and I’ll formulate my thoughts
into a coherent discussion-starter.

PS: Is there any desire for a more general game development discussion
forum, very high signal-to-noise, ideally consisting of only people
actually making games? I know I’d like one…


Marc A. Lepage
http://www.antimeta.com/
Minion open source game, RTS game programming, etc.

hayward at slothmud.org wrote:

I’m interested in both the forum as well as the current topic.
–Brian

Ditto.

– Joe

PS: Is there any desire for a more general game development discussion
forum, very high signal-to-noise, ideally consisting of only people
actually making games? I know I’d like one…


Marc A. Lepage
http://www.antimeta.com/
Minion open source game, RTS game programming, etc.

– Joe Knapka

  • What happens when a mysterious force meets an inscrutable object?

hayward at slothmud.org wrote:

I’m interested in both the forum as well as the current topic.
–Brian

Ditto.

Same here… anybody know where we could host a Linux-GameDev forum? If
worst comes to worst I know a few small servers who might be willing to
host, or maybe we could see if Sam can bludgeon some space out of Loki
Software. :stuck_out_tongue:

Nicholas

Nicholas Vining “While you’re out there struggling
vining at pacificcoast.net with your computer, I’m naked,
icq: 20872003 clueless, and feeling good!”
- Ratbert

----- Original Message -----
From: jknapka@charter.net (Joe Knapka)
To: sdl at lokigames.com
Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [SDL] Game Loop?

Nicholas Vining wrote:>

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Knapka
To: sdl at lokigames.com
Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [SDL] Game Loop?

hayward at slothmud.org wrote:

I’m interested in both the forum as well as the current topic.
–Brian

Ditto.

Same here… anybody know where we could host a Linux-GameDev forum? If
worst comes to worst I know a few small servers who might be willing to
host, or maybe we could see if Sam can bludgeon some space out of Loki
Software. :stuck_out_tongue:

My PowerPak mailing list is hosted at Topica.com and they do a great
job. Since I have an account I can set it up right now, if you all would
like. (just want to make sure before 10 people go making lists. hehe)

Same here… anybody know where we could host a Linux-GameDev forum? If
worst comes to worst I know a few small servers who might be willing to
host, or maybe we could see if Sam can bludgeon some space out of Loki
Software. :stuck_out_tongue:

That’s not a bad idea. I’ll bring it up with Scott next week.

See ya!
-Sam Lantinga (slouken at devolution.com)

Lead Programmer, Loki Entertainment Software–
“Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature”
– Rich Kulawiec

At 07:20 PM 1/29/00 -0800, you wrote:

Same here… anybody know where we could host a Linux-GameDev forum? If
worst comes to worst I know a few small servers who might be willing to
host, or maybe we could see if Sam can bludgeon some space out of Loki
Software. :stuck_out_tongue:

That’s not a bad idea. I’ll bring it up with Scott next week.

See ya!
-Sam Lantinga (slouken at devolution.com)

Check out http://www.swiki.net

and my swiki http://echostar.swiki.net

It’s not a forum, but you can make a passable forum on a swiki, no sweat.

Check out http://www.swiki.net

and my swiki http://echostar.swiki.net

It’s not a forum, but you can make a passable forum on a swiki, no sweat.

I don’t like login-web-boards. Traversing the threads by point/click is
annoying. I’d rather have it in a mailing list myself.

And to suit the needs of those who like to get the info by going to a
place like that, a cross-posted newsgroup would work great to satisfy
everyones likings… I’d think.

Maybe wait for Sam to get back to us on monday.–
Brian

At 09:57 PM 1/29/00 -0600, you wrote:

Check out http://www.swiki.net

and my swiki http://echostar.swiki.net

It’s not a forum, but you can make a passable forum on a swiki, no sweat.

I don’t like login-web-boards. Traversing the threads by point/click is
annoying. I’d rather have it in a mailing list myself.

Swikis have live text boxes to append to page with no login.
Logins ARE required to edit existing pages and create new pages.
Uploads are supported.

And to suit the needs of those who like to get the info by going to a
place like that, a cross-posted newsgroup would work great to satisfy
everyones likings… I’d think.

I can’t argue with that, except that you can’t link from one post into
another on a newsgroup.

On a swiki, you can link to another page with Another Page, and to a
location on another page with Another Page at location. There’s more, just
look around.

Excuse me if this is a rant, but I’m pretty stoked on the swiki concept.
Writing with hyper-links and no HTML, unlocks my inner journalist, and lets
me be very creative. When I sit down to do email now and work the
Newsgroups, I keep a session open to my swiki for links to canned answers.
I can be brief and completely informative, without missing important
details. An important consideration for an old geek like me. See:
http://graygeeks.swiki.net/2

jbuff>Maybe wait for Sam to get back to us on monday.


Brian

Excuse me if this is a rant, but I’m pretty stoked on the swiki concept.
Writing with hyper-links and no HTML, unlocks my inner journalist, and lets
me be very creative. When I sit down to do email now and work the
Newsgroups, I keep a session open to my swiki for links to canned answers.
I can be brief and completely informative, without missing important
details. An important consideration for an old geek like me. See:
http://graygeeks.swiki.net/2

My turn to rant… :slight_smile:

It does sound like a neat/unique idea. But it’s a conveniance thing for
me. I’d like to goto my mailbox and read through all of the different
mailing list data that I have, in just one place.

If I have to remember to go to a page and check it out, more than likely I
will just forget about it and not even take part in discussion on a
frequent basis. This will become especially apparent if I have many
different mailing lists that are converted to and/or setup on swiki.

For example, I run a text based MUD. I have my own web-board for
discussions/ideas/complaints/etc… it’s even hosted on my own server.
Often times, I don’t even check it for weeks, just because it’s not
conveniant to do so. Where as I check my email anywhere from once every
12 hours, to once every 45 minutes.–
Brian

At 11:06 PM 1/29/00 -0600, you wrote:

Excuse me if this is a rant, but I’m pretty stoked on the swiki concept.
Writing with hyper-links and no HTML, unlocks my inner journalist, and lets
me be very creative. When I sit down to do email now and work the
Newsgroups, I keep a session open to my swiki for links to canned answers.
I can be brief and completely informative, without missing important
details. An important consideration for an old geek like me. See:
http://graygeeks.swiki.net/2

My turn to rant… :slight_smile:

It does sound like a neat/unique idea. But it’s a conveniance thing for
me. I’d like to goto my mailbox and read through all of the different
mailing list data that I have, in just one place.

If I have to remember to go to a page and check it out, more than likely I
will just forget about it and not even take part in discussion on a
frequent basis. This will become especially apparent if I have many
different mailing lists that are converted to and/or setup on swiki.

For example, I run a text based MUD. I have my own web-board for
discussions/ideas/complaints/etc… it’s even hosted on my own server.
Often times, I don’t even check it for weeks, just because it’s not
conveniant to do so. Where as I check my email anywhere from once every
12 hours, to once every 45 minutes.

But the point is that I still use my email and Newsgroups as well as a swiki.
The swiki is where the knowledge that goes should accumulate, and it should
be easy to retrieve it or even change it as time passes. Typical example.
You know you’ve got a valuable piece of code that you ignored when it went
by six months ago. you look through the 4000 or so messages in your local
archive of the email group, and when you get tired of that, you do a
newsgroup search that turns up the topic, but doesn’t catch the correction
that appeared four weeks later. If the person who posted the original item
had also placed it on an appropriate swiki page, you could have been there
in a minute or less.

–jbuff

Ahh, I see… sorry, my misunderstanding.
Using it in addition to the newsgroup/mailing, rather than replacing it
is an excellent idea.–
Brian

But the point is that I still use my email and Newsgroups as well as a swiki.
The swiki is where the knowledge that goes should accumulate, and it should
be easy to retrieve it or even change it as time passes. Typical example.
You know you’ve got a valuable piece of code that you ignored when it went
by six months ago. you look through the 4000 or so messages in your local
archive of the email group, and when you get tired of that, you do a
newsgroup search that turns up the topic, but doesn’t catch the correction
that appeared four weeks later. If the person who posted the original item
had also placed it on an appropriate swiki page, you could have been there
in a minute or less.

–jbuff

But the point is that I still use my email and Newsgroups as well as a
swiki.
The swiki is where the knowledge that goes should accumulate, and it should
be easy to retrieve it or even change it as time passes. Typical example.
You know you’ve got a valuable piece of code that you ignored when it went
by six months ago. you look through the 4000 or so messages in your local
archive of the email group, and when you get tired of that, you do a
newsgroup search that turns up the topic, but doesn’t catch the correction
that appeared four weeks later. If the person who posted the original item
had also placed it on an appropriate swiki page, you could have been there
in a minute or less.

I’m sorry, I cast my vote for a mailing list here as well. They’re nicer,
easier to maintain, and really on the whole more convenient. I’ll never use
a message board, simply because I don’t like them, and I also don’t really
like accessing the Web. And I can do that very easily, because code
shouldn’t be posted on mailing lists at all… that’s just foolish and bad
coding practice.

–jbuff

Nicholas

Nicholas Vining “While you’re out there struggling
vining at pacificcoast.net with your computer, I’m naked,
icq: 20872003 clueless, and feeling good!”
- Ratbert

----- Original Message -----
From: jbuff@pacific.net (John Buffington)
To: sdl at lokigames.com
Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [SDL] Game Loop?

At 11:59 PM 1/29/00 -0600, you wrote:

Ahh, I see… sorry, my misunderstanding.
Using it in addition to the newsgroup/mailing, rather than replacing it
is an excellent idea.

I love it. The Aha factor. I hate to be an “evangelist” about things, but when
someone sees the light, it makes it all worthwhile. Swikis are a new paradigm,
or at least they deliver on an old one. If I was intimate with SDL
components, I could
whip up a framework for one in about an hour, so if anyone else groks the idea,
I’ll be happy to contribute my experience in swiki design to help set it up.

I don’t write games anymore, but I share your passion.

–jbuff

It does sound like a neat/unique idea. But it’s a conveniance thing for
me. I’d like to goto my mailbox and read through all of the different
mailing list data that I have, in just one place.

If I have to remember to go to a page and check it out, more than likely I
will just forget about it and not even take part in discussion on a
frequent basis. This will become especially apparent if I have many
different mailing lists that are converted to and/or setup on swiki.

This is why I adore Slashdot & Freshmeat’s nightly mailings.
I’ve bugged Bob Z. at The Linux Game Tome a number of times to implement
something like that. Honestly, I just forget to go to sites unless
I’m reminded.

-bill!

At 12:08 AM 1/30/00 -0800, you wrote:

It does sound like a neat/unique idea. But it’s a conveniance thing for
me. I’d like to goto my mailbox and read through all of the different
mailing list data that I have, in just one place.

If I have to remember to go to a page and check it out, more than likely I
will just forget about it and not even take part in discussion on a
frequent basis. This will become especially apparent if I have many
different mailing lists that are converted to and/or setup on swiki.

This is why I adore Slashdot & Freshmeat’s nightly mailings.
I’ve bugged Bob Z. at The Linux Game Tome a number of times to implement
something like that. Honestly, I just forget to go to sites unless
I’m reminded.

The folks at Swiki.net are adding an emailed (daily?) report of changes to
the existing
page change email (which gets a little annoying when you do lots of edits).

I get a report from them, with links to all the pages that changed.
or at least that’s the plan (they are in beta testing, after all).

Or you can just go for the “Changes” button and get a web page with all the
pages, and when they were last changed.

–jbuff

Marc Lepage wrote:

I’ve been considering the timing of the main game loop, and how it
relates to frame drawing and distributed simulation in multiplayer
games. Pages 381-5 of Rollings/Morris’ Game Architecture and Design talk
about coupled, semi-decoupled, and fully-decoupled game loops. I’m
interested in applying these ideas to RTS games, and wondered if my
ideas were sound (and typical), or way off the mark.

I do not have this book, what do they mean by coupled, semi-decoupled
and fully-decoupled game loops? Decoupled to what, the framerate?

For example, in Quadra, we use a fixed timebase of 10 ms for the game
logic and we draw as quickly as possible (yes, it sometimes mean that
the same screen gets drawn twice, but keeps the mouse movement smooth).

PS: Is there any desire for a more general game development discussion
forum, very high signal-to-noise, ideally consisting of only people
actually making games? I know I’d like one…

There is the Linux Game Development Center mailing list and newsgroup,
which is nice… It’s not too noisy, it prefers to go silent rather than
getting noisy, but it doesn’t mean that it is always low-traffic. Bring
up a question and it’ll get discussed.–
Pierre Phaneuf
Ludus Design, http://ludusdesign.com/

Pierre Phaneuf wrote:

Marc Lepage wrote:

I’ve been considering the timing of the main game loop, and how it
relates to frame drawing and distributed simulation in multiplayer
games. Pages 381-5 of Rollings/Morris’ Game Architecture and Design talk
about coupled, semi-decoupled, and fully-decoupled game loops. I’m
interested in applying these ideas to RTS games, and wondered if my
ideas were sound (and typical), or way off the mark.

I do not have this book, what do they mean by coupled, semi-decoupled
and fully-decoupled game loops? Decoupled to what, the framerate?

Pretty much. I’m going to try to type it in tonight.–
Marc A. Lepage
Software Developer
Molecular Mining Corporation
http://www.molecularmining.com/

“Marc A. Lepage” wrote:

I do not have this book, what do they mean by coupled, semi-decoupled
and fully-decoupled game loops? Decoupled to what, the framerate?

Pretty much. I’m going to try to type it in tonight.

Wow, I wasn’t expecting that much from you! :-)–
Pierre Phaneuf
Ludus Design, http://ludusdesign.com/

: There is the Linux Game Development Center mailing list and newsgroup,
: which is nice… It’s not too noisy, it prefers to go silent rather
than
: getting noisy, but it doesn’t mean that it is always low-traffic.
Bring
: up a question and it’ll get discussed.
:
: –
: Pierre Phaneuf
: Ludus Design, http://ludusdesign.com/

Linux Game Development Center ML and newsgroup? Where can I find more
information on this??? :slight_smile: Tell me please :slight_smile: