Tux Paint alpha release “2002.06.17a” is now available.
Changes include:
Also, Tux Paint now has a proper website on New Breed Software.
The URL is the same:
http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/tuxpaint/
Enjoy!
-bill!
I still say you’re insane, once you have implemented a few more things,
I’ll package it for Debian. 
Who needs gimp anyway? =DOn Mon, Jun 17, 2002 at 03:49:54PM -0700, nbs wrote:
Tux Paint alpha release “2002.06.17a” is now available.
–
Joseph Carter This thing is an AI
That’s the funniest thing I’ve ever heard and I will not condone it.
– DyerMaker, 17 March 2000 MegaPhone radio show
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nbs wrote:
Tux Paint alpha release “2002.06.17a” is now available.
Very cute! My son is now 11 and highly GIMP-literate - but when
he was much younger, he played with Xpaint (which is somewhat similar
to your program), I noticed some things that you might find useful:
Try to do without text - the kids at the lower end of your age
range hardly know their letters - let alone the meanings of things
like “Undo” and “Redo”. (I always liked “OOPS!” instead of "Undo"
and “Byebye!” instead of “Quit” anyway).
Try to avoid two-step operations - like picking ‘Paint’ and then
choosing the paint colour or picking ‘Stamp’ and then the stamp shape.
Again, at the lower end of your age range, they’ll want to stamp a
picture of Tux or something, and remember that the stamp was over to
the right somewhere - but find it hard to associate pushing a button
way over on the left to make that happen.
It would be better if the stamps were always there and if instead of
having ‘Paint’ and a row of colours, you had just a row of coloured
paint brushes and a row of coloured shapes and a row of coloured 'Abc’s
so that you select the tool and the colour of the tool all in one go.
Admittedly, this leaves you with a problem when it comes to THREE
step operations (Pick ‘Paint’, pick ‘Green’, pick the Round brush).
This takes up more screen space - but I think it’s worth it.
Instead of loading and saving, it’s interesting to think of
simply auto-saving on every program exit and every ‘New’ operation
and providing a visual browser to access a list of thumbnail pictures
in chronological order. Dealing with filenames is an impossibility,
and even at age 11, my kid has trouble thinking of good names and
remembering them again in the future.
I just hate the floods of tears whenever an "important picture"
goes missing - either because it wasn’t saved or was overwritten -
or accidentally 'New’ed.
With disk drives in the multi-Gigabyte range, and the easy-compressability
and low resolution of most kid pictures (maybe not if they use a lot
of stamps) - you should be able to store all the pictures a kid would
ever reasonably produce.
I really liked the nice bold words at the bottom of the screen so the
child may come to associate the picture of moon stamp with the word ‘MOON’.
It would be an interesting project to think of how to gently transition
a child from TuxPaint to GIMP. Maybe some TuxPaint options to make it
look and feel like something partway between the two?
Anyway - I’m sure this will be a hit even as it stands right now.
----------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------------
Mail : <@Steve_Baker> WorkMail:
URLs : http://www.sjbaker.org
http://plib.sf.net http://tuxaqfh.sf.net http://tuxkart.sf.net
http://prettypoly.sf.net http://freeglut.sf.net
http://toobular.sf.net http://lodestone.sf.net
- Instead of loading and saving, it’s interesting to think of
simply auto-saving on every program exit and every ‘New’ operation
and providing a visual browser to access a list of thumbnail pictures
in chronological order. Dealing with filenames is an impossibility,
and even at age 11, my kid has trouble thinking of good names and
remembering them again in the future.
And then maybe an “advanced” option somewhere, where parents or older
siblings could easily export to png or jpg files, for putting on a web page
or e-mailing to grandma or whatever.
It would be an interesting project to think of how to gently transition
a child from TuxPaint to GIMP. Maybe some TuxPaint options to make it
look and feel like something partway between the two?
Urgh, let’s try to keep anything from looking or feeling like the GIMP.
Nice functionality; terrible UI.On Mon, Jun 17, 2002 at 09:38:40PM -0500, Steve Baker wrote:
–
Matthew Miller @Matthew_Miller http://www.mattdm.org/
Boston University Linux ------> http://linux.bu.edu/
- Instead of loading and saving, it’s interesting to think of
simply auto-saving on every program exit and every ‘New’ operation
and providing a visual browser to access a list of thumbnail pictures
in chronological order. Dealing with filenames is an impossibility,
and even at age 11, my kid has trouble thinking of good names and
remembering them again in the future.And then maybe an “advanced” option somewhere, where parents or older
siblings could easily export to png or jpg files, for putting on a web page
or e-mailing to grandma or whatever.
At first, I’ll have instructions on how to do it.
Down the road, it’ll be nice to have an app. “for the parents”
(guardians, teachers, whatever) which lets them manage and manipulate
things. (Set program options, delete old pictures, export for web or e-mail,
print, etc.)
It would be an interesting project to think of how to gently transition
a child from TuxPaint to GIMP. Maybe some TuxPaint options to make it
look and feel like something partway between the two?Urgh, let’s try to keep anything from looking or feeling like the GIMP.
Nice functionality; terrible UI.
Heh. The Gimp is awesome compared to some older programs.
Sure, it takes a little getting used to, but lots of paint apps I’ve
tried are just downright unintuitive!
-bill!On Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 10:19:34PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Mon, Jun 17, 2002 at 09:38:40PM -0500, Steve Baker wrote:
And then maybe an “advanced” option somewhere, where parents or older
siblings could easily export to png or jpg files, for putting on a web
page or e-mailing to grandma or whatever.
At first, I’ll have instructions on how to do it. Down the road, it’ll be
nice to have an app. “for the parents” (guardians, teachers, whatever)
which lets them manage and manipulate things. (Set program options,
delete old pictures, export for web or e-mail, print, etc.)
Oh, good call.
Heh. The Gimp is awesome compared to some older programs.
Sure, it takes a little getting used to, but lots of paint apps I’ve
tried are just downright unintuitive!
Ok, but there’s NO call for commonly used functions to be three layers deep
on a right-click menu. Urrrgh.On Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 07:24:32PM -0700, nbs wrote:
–
Matthew Miller @Matthew_Miller http://www.mattdm.org/
Boston University Linux ------> http://linux.bu.edu/
Hehe. That’s when you ‘rip’ menus out and leave them on your desktop.
Or simply assign them some key.
(num-pad-"*" was always good for ‘Scale Image’ function, for example)
-bill!On Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 10:28:09PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
Ok, but there’s NO call for commonly used functions to be three layers deep
on a right-click menu. Urrrgh.
Problem is, those menus will be hidden after you switch to a different
application, then switch back to GIMP. Now there’s probably an option to
bring all GIMP windows to the top (I haven’t bothered to look for it though)
Ah well… this has gone completely off-topic 
cu,
NicolaiAm Mittwoch, 19. Juni 2002 04:31 schrieb nbs:
On Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 10:28:09PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
Ok, but there’s NO call for commonly used functions to be three layers
deep on a right-click menu. Urrrgh.Hehe. That’s when you ‘rip’ menus out and leave them on your desktop.
Or simply assign them some key.
[…]
Urgh, let’s try to keep anything from looking or feeling like the GIMP.
Nice functionality; terrible UI.
What’s wrong with the GIMP UI? 
IMHO, it beats all versions of PhotoShop I’ve tried so far. If you go into the scripting/automation area (where PhotoShop up to 5.5 at least, has little to offer beyond simple batch image conversions), there simply is no competetion for GIMP, AFAIK.
Sure, some frequently used things could have smoother, but “fixing” that would come at a cost: Too many different “philosophies” in the same UI, and no sane person will be able to learn and remember the peculiarities of every tool.
//David
.---------------------------------------
| David Olofson
| Programmer
| david.olofson at reologica.se |
|---|
| Address: |
| REOLOGICA Instruments AB |
| Scheelev?gen 30 |
| 223 63 LUND |
| Sweden |
| --------------------------------------- |
| Phone: 046-12 77 60 |
| Fax: 046-12 50 57 |
| Mobil: |
| E-mail: david.olofson at reologica.se |
| WWW: http://www.reologica.se |
`-----> We Make Rheology RealOn Tue, 18/06/2002 22:19:34 , Matthew Miller wrote:
You’re confusing functionality with user interface. It can do things just
fine, but not as elegantly as Photoshop. My main complaint is the menus –
commonly used items are deeply-buried on right-click menus. I also prefer
the way selection/floating works in photoshop. Oh, and you can’t have
brush-sized cursors. And so on.On Thu, Jun 20, 2002 at 12:34:28PM +0200, David Olofson wrote:
IMHO, it beats all versions of PhotoShop I’ve tried so far. If you go into
the scripting/automation area (where PhotoShop up to 5.5 at least, has
little to offer beyond simple batch image conversions), there simply is no
competetion for GIMP, AFAIK.
–
Matthew Miller @Matthew_Miller http://www.mattdm.org/
Boston University Linux ------> http://linux.bu.edu/
IMHO, it beats all versions of PhotoShop I’ve tried so far. If you go into
the scripting/automation area (where PhotoShop up to 5.5 at least, has
little to offer beyond simple batch image conversions), there simply is no
competetion for GIMP, AFAIK.You’re confusing functionality with user interface. It can do things just
fine, but not as elegantly as Photoshop.
I find some areas of gimp a lot more elegant than photoshop. Last time I
checked a whole lot of Photoshop was still modal. Open up the colour
picker and the rest of the interface freezes - this is a real
productivity killer if you are not used to it. I also like the way the
Gimp deals with transparency. People who started with Photoshop just
don’t realise how idiosyncratic it can be. Having said that the latest
photoshop 7 has a lot more functionality
My main complaint is the menus –
commonly used items are deeply-buried on right-click menus.
You can Tear off menus - just click the little dashed line at the top of
a menu and it becomes a dialogue box.
I also prefer
the way selection/floating works in photoshop.
This is a common complaint -> Personally I find both approaches could be
better.
Oh, and you can’t have
brush-sized cursors.
Amen Brother.
And so on.On Thu, 2002-06-20 at 22:52, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Thu, Jun 20, 2002 at 12:34:28PM +0200, David Olofson wrote:
This functionality exists with KDE3 right click minimise All or restore
all. You can also tell a window to stay above all the others.
Enlightenment goes has even more fine grain control… If you are using
an environment that does not allow this level of control you need to get
into the habbit of minimising applications you are not using…On Wed, 2002-06-19 at 20:39, Nicolai Haehnle wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 19. Juni 2002 04:31 schrieb nbs:
On Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 10:28:09PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
Ok, but there’s NO call for commonly used functions to be three layers
deep on a right-click menu. Urrrgh.Hehe. That’s when you ‘rip’ menus out and leave them on your desktop.
Or simply assign them some key.Problem is, those menus will be hidden after you switch to a different
application, then switch back to GIMP. Now there’s probably an option to
bring all GIMP windows to the top (I haven’t bothered to look for it though)
- still, I’m talking about the default settings, and those are horrible.
Ah well… this has gone completely off-topic
cu,
Nicolai
SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl
Everyone:
Please discuss the merits and flaws of The Gimp on a different mailing
list. Last I checked, GTK+ doesn’t have an SDL target (even though it
SHOULD! )
–ryan.
I seem to have to keep telling people this. This is terrible, because the
menus are still “context” menus – they’re tied to whatever image you
happened to work on. So, if you’re working on multiple images (which I often
am), you’d have to tear off multiple menus and then remember which is
which! Plus, the torn-off menus take up a lot of screen space, plus you
have to spend time tearing them off and getting your environment set up –
you can’t just start right in. And the problem isn’t just that you have to
go so many levels to get to common items – using a right-click menu means
that things are never physically in the same place, which makes it
impossible to use “muscle memory” – you must search out the option you want
each time.On Fri, Jun 21, 2002 at 08:37:58PM +1000, Danni Coy wrote:
You can Tear off menus - just click the little dashed line at the top of
a menu and it becomes a dialogue box.
–
Matthew Miller @Matthew_Miller http://www.mattdm.org/
Boston University Linux ------> http://linux.bu.edu/
Yeah sorry. People just kept e-mailing me and telling me about tear-off
menus. :)On Fri, Jun 21, 2002 at 08:57:20AM -0400, Ryan C. Gordon wrote:
Everyone:
Please discuss the merits and flaws of The Gimp on a different mailing
list. Last I checked, GTK+ doesn’t have an SDL target (even though it
SHOULD!
–
Matthew Miller @Matthew_Miller http://www.mattdm.org/
Boston University Linux ------> http://linux.bu.edu/
You can Tear off menus - just click the little dashed line at the top of
a menu and it becomes a dialogue box.I seem to have to keep telling people this.
menus are still “context” menus – they’re tied to whatever image you
happened to work on. So, if you’re working on multiple images (which I often
am), you’d have to tear off multiple menus and then remember which is
which!
Just tested it > Not the case… The last Image you touched is the one
affected.
Plus, the torn-off menus take up a lot of screen space, plus you
have to spend time tearing them off and getting your environment set up –
Takes very little time. Also if you hold a menu open on an item and
press a key combo that key combo is bound to that item. (still wish you
could save binding sets to files though)
you can’t just start right in. And the problem isn’t just that you have to
go so many levels to get to common items – using a right-click menu means
that things are never physically in the same place, which makes it
impossible to use “muscle memory” – you must search out the option you want
each time.
Good point If it weren’t for the fact that the menus sometimes go up
and sometimes down depending on where you click on the screen I would be
calling you a liar about now. Hmmm maybe a maya style hotbox would work
well. (The spacebar still doesn’t do anything important yet)
Sorry I know this should be on the other list…On Fri, 2002-06-21 at 23:06, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Fri, Jun 21, 2002 at 08:37:58PM +1000, Danni Coy wrote:
–
Matthew Miller mattdm at mattdm.org http://www.mattdm.org/
Boston University Linux ------> http://linux.bu.edu/
SDL mailing list
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