The Basic Linux Basic

SDL Development
1

Hi.

I?m building a dedicated linux distro to my 2DGame.
We?re programing this game totally in SDL, without OpenGL.
I?ve used Ansi C ( Not C++ )

And the words “DRI”, “FrameBuffer”, “XOrg” and “Vesa” are concepts that cause
me some confusion. Mainly when treated togheter or superficially.

So, my question is:

My SDL dedicated machine/linux need to have… What?

  • kernel-compiled FrameBuffer ?
  • XOrg ?
  • DRI ?

I hope somebody can understand my confuse problem (in my poor english).

Thank you.

2

Oi Miguel,

You only need the framebuffer driver if you are going to run the
game without X.

DRI is one of the possible ways for XWindows 3D drivers to access
the kernel and make X run optimized on local machines.

http://dri.sourceforge.net/doc/DRIintro.html

As for VESA, it is an old graphics standard that started still
in the old DOS days when graphic card manufacters were trying to
standardise access to the graphic cards APIs.

If you are building a distro just to make your game playable, like
those old Amiga games, the framebuffer seems a better option.

However keep in mind that it doesn’t support as many graphic cards
as X.

Cheers,
Paulo

Miguel wrote:> Hi.

I?m building a dedicated linux distro to my 2DGame.
We?re programing this game totally in SDL, without OpenGL.
I?ve used Ansi C ( Not C++ )

And the words “DRI”, “FrameBuffer”, “XOrg” and “Vesa” are concepts that cause
me some confusion. Mainly when treated togheter or superficially.

So, my question is:

My SDL dedicated machine/linux need to have… What?

  • kernel-compiled FrameBuffer ?
  • XOrg ?
  • DRI ?

I hope somebody can understand my confuse problem (in my poor english).

Thank you.

SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

3

Agreed with Paulo.

In my own personal opinion by experience:

You don’t need Framebuffer unless your game runs in it, which isn’t X but
say… when you can make the terminal have background images, or
bootscreens… that’s what Framebuffer is in a practical way: a video mode
without X (isn’t hardware-accelerated and not very optimized for graphics
speed as X is).

DRI, as I see it, is a way to get direct access to the video card’s hardware
(and thus, get awesome hardware acceleration, in 2D too though it’s mostly
used and required for 3D), so that’s a good option and works wonderfully for
newer video cards.

VESA is an old MS-DOS mode that was used for high-res graphics. It wasn’t
very fast with alpha blending and all that flashy stuff that we’re used to
see in newer 2D games, but it allowed to run stuff at 1280x1024 (and even
higher) fast enough with a CPU that supported it back in the time. Right
now, I’d see VESA as a compatible video mode for those old video cards which
can’t or don’t support DRI, have bad drivers, or stuff like that. It would
be a good idea to include it as the most compatible (but slower, maybe)
option.On 10/18/06, Paulo Pinto wrote:

Oi Miguel,

You only need the framebuffer driver if you are going to run the
game without X.

DRI is one of the possible ways for XWindows 3D drivers to access
the kernel and make X run optimized on local machines.

http://dri.sourceforge.net/doc/DRIintro.html

As for VESA, it is an old graphics standard that started still
in the old DOS days when graphic card manufacters were trying to
standardise access to the graphic cards APIs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VESA_BIOS_Extensions

If you are building a distro just to make your game playable, like
those old Amiga games, the framebuffer seems a better option.

However keep in mind that it doesn’t support as many graphic cards
as X.

Cheers,
Paulo

Miguel wrote:

Hi.

I?m building a dedicated linux distro to my 2DGame.
We?re programing this game totally in SDL, without OpenGL.
I?ve used Ansi C ( Not C++ )

And the words “DRI”, “FrameBuffer”, “XOrg” and “Vesa” are concepts that
cause
me some confusion. Mainly when treated togheter or superficially.

So, my question is:

My SDL dedicated machine/linux need to have… What?

  • kernel-compiled FrameBuffer ?
  • XOrg ?
  • DRI ?

I hope somebody can understand my confuse problem (in my poor english).

Thank you.

SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

4

Hi guys,

I’m developing the game with Miguel, and i’m build one basic linux distro
based in debian like he was said for you.

My distro is working with framebuffer, and the game is running on xorg with
fluxbox (that is the smaller desktop enviroment that we can found) but we
are not like the result. It’s with 55fps maximum when some little stops on
animation. At windows it’s not happen.

I try some times to active DRI on xorg, but not with success. I try at xorg
and check with
$glxinfo | grep direct
direct rendering: No

We are using A7S8X-MX with onboard sis video card.

My xorg use sis generic driver and i cannot give a better video driver on
google.

The primary question is: how is the better way to run sdl games on linux?

Some people told that is without x, but how i can do it?
i modify my grub conf to start with vga=792 and it make the game run faster
(55fps). but i need open the game on fluxbox (xorg)…

Thank you for help us

Best Regards,

R?ben.

Agreed with Paulo.

In my own personal opinion by experience:

You don’t need Framebuffer unless your game runs in it, which isn’t X but
say… when you can make the terminal have background images, or
bootscreens… that’s what Framebuffer is in a practical way: a video mode
without X (isn’t hardware-accelerated and not very optimized for graphics
speed as X is).

DRI, as I see it, is a way to get direct access to the video card’s
hardware
(and thus, get awesome hardware acceleration, in 2D too though it’s mostly
used and required for 3D), so that’s a good option and works wonderfully
for
newer video cards.

VESA is an old MS-DOS mode that was used for high-res graphics. It wasn’t
very fast with alpha blending and all that flashy stuff that we’re used to
see in newer 2D games, but it allowed to run stuff at 1280x1024 (and even
higher) fast enough with a CPU that supported it back in the time. Right
now, I’d see VESA as a compatible video mode for those old video cards
which
can’t or don’t support DRI, have bad drivers, or stuff like that. It would
be a good idea to include it as the most compatible (but slower, maybe)
option.

Oi Miguel,

You only need the framebuffer driver if you are going to run the
game without X.

DRI is one of the possible ways for XWindows 3D drivers to access
the kernel and make X run optimized on local machines.

http://dri.sourceforge.net/doc/DRIintro.html

As for VESA, it is an old graphics standard that started still
in the old DOS days when graphic card manufacters were trying to
standardise access to the graphic cards APIs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VESA_BIOS_Extensions

If you are building a distro just to make your game playable, like
those old Amiga games, the framebuffer seems a better option.

However keep in mind that it doesn’t support as many graphic cards
as X.

Cheers,
Paulo

Miguel wrote:

Hi.

I?m building a dedicated linux distro to my 2DGame.
We?re programing this game totally in SDL, without OpenGL.
I?ve used Ansi C ( Not C++ )

And the words “DRI”, “FrameBuffer”, “XOrg” and “Vesa” are concepts
that
cause

me some confusion. Mainly when treated togheter or superficially.

So, my question is:

My SDL dedicated machine/linux need to have… What?

  • kernel-compiled FrameBuffer ?
  • XOrg ?
  • DRI ?

I hope somebody can understand my confuse problem (in my poor
english).On 10/19/06, DARKGuy . <dark.guy.2008 at gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/18/06, Paulo Pinto wrote:

Thank you.

SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

5

You get best audience with everything, but there are some legal and
practical issues. For Xorg you most likely can’t use closed source
NVidia or ATI drivers. Frame buffer with VESA works for all but the
most stone-aged HW, but it is quite slow in every HW.

So what ever you use you will need a good HW detection SW to make the CD
really useful.On Wednesday 18 October 2006 23:12, Miguel wrote:

Hi.

I?m building a dedicated linux distro to my 2DGame.
We?re programing this game totally in SDL, without OpenGL.
I?ve used Ansi C ( Not C++ )

And the words “DRI”, “FrameBuffer”, “XOrg” and “Vesa” are concepts
that cause me some confusion. Mainly when treated togheter or
superficially.

So, my question is:

My SDL dedicated machine/linux need to have… What?

  • kernel-compiled FrameBuffer ?
  • XOrg ?
  • DRI ?
6

Sami N??t?nen wrote:> On Wednesday 18 October 2006 23:12, Miguel wrote:

Hi.

I?m building a dedicated linux distro to my 2DGame.
We?re programing this game totally in SDL, without OpenGL.
I?ve used Ansi C ( Not C++ )

And the words “DRI”, “FrameBuffer”, “XOrg” and “Vesa” are concepts
that cause me some confusion. Mainly when treated togheter or
superficially.

So, my question is:

My SDL dedicated machine/linux need to have… What?

  • kernel-compiled FrameBuffer ?
  • XOrg ?
  • DRI ?

You get best audience with everything, but there are some legal and
practical issues. For Xorg you most likely can’t use closed source
NVidia or ATI drivers. Frame buffer with VESA works for all but the
most stone-aged HW, but it is quite slow in every HW.

So what ever you use you will need a good HW detection SW to make the CD
really useful.

Live CDs already do that. Take the Mandriva Live CD as a base for example.
Since all their tools are GPL, it should be easy to do.

Also, you CAN use closed source NVidia drivers. The Mandriva Live CD come
with them for example :slight_smile: NVidia changed their driver licence some times ago
to allow that.

7

Might be easier to use the Morphix system as a base.On 10/19/06, Christophe Cavalaria <chris.cavalaria at free.fr> wrote:

Sami N??t?nen wrote:

On Wednesday 18 October 2006 23:12, Miguel wrote:

Hi.

I?m building a dedicated linux distro to my 2DGame.
We?re programing this game totally in SDL, without OpenGL.
I?ve used Ansi C ( Not C++ )

And the words “DRI”, “FrameBuffer”, “XOrg” and “Vesa” are concepts
that cause me some confusion. Mainly when treated togheter or
superficially.

So, my question is:

My SDL dedicated machine/linux need to have… What?

  • kernel-compiled FrameBuffer ?
  • XOrg ?
  • DRI ?

You get best audience with everything, but there are some legal and
practical issues. For Xorg you most likely can’t use closed source
NVidia or ATI drivers. Frame buffer with VESA works for all but the
most stone-aged HW, but it is quite slow in every HW.

So what ever you use you will need a good HW detection SW to make the CD
really useful.

Live CDs already do that. Take the Mandriva Live CD as a base for example.
Since all their tools are GPL, it should be easy to do.

Also, you CAN use closed source NVidia drivers. The Mandriva Live CD come
with them for example :slight_smile: NVidia changed their driver licence some times
ago
to allow that.

SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

–
-MercyKiller

http://lms.d3files.com
http://www.debian.org

8

NVidia and ATI is not the problem, i can install and use that at maximum
aceleration.

The problem is our motherboards is all with onboard video (SIS).
and this company dont have drivers installer to download at oficial site.

I’m trying to use framebuffer, that is the best result that i get with our
game (55fps).

ty,

R?benOn 10/19/06, Stephen Youts wrote:

Might be easier to use the Morphix system as a base.

On 10/19/06, Christophe Cavalaria <chris.cavalaria at free.fr > wrote:

Sami N??t?nen wrote:

On Wednesday 18 October 2006 23:12, Miguel wrote:

Hi.

I?m building a dedicated linux distro to my 2DGame.
We?re programing this game totally in SDL, without OpenGL.
I?ve used Ansi C ( Not C++ )

And the words “DRI”, “FrameBuffer”, “XOrg” and “Vesa” are concepts
that cause me some confusion. Mainly when treated togheter or
superficially.

So, my question is:

My SDL dedicated machine/linux need to have… What?

  • kernel-compiled FrameBuffer ?
  • XOrg ?
  • DRI ?

You get best audience with everything, but there are some legal and
practical issues. For Xorg you most likely can’t use closed source
NVidia or ATI drivers. Frame buffer with VESA works for all but the
most stone-aged HW, but it is quite slow in every HW.

So what ever you use you will need a good HW detection SW to make the
CD
really useful.

Live CDs already do that. Take the Mandriva Live CD as a base for
example.
Since all their tools are GPL, it should be easy to do.

Also, you CAN use closed source NVidia drivers. The Mandriva Live CD
come
with them for example :slight_smile: NVidia changed their driver licence some times
ago
to allow that.

SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

–
-MercyKiller

http://lms.d3files.com
http://www.debian.org

SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

–
Linux user #433535
Linux because we are freedon.

9

Sami N??t?nen wrote:

Hi.

I?m building a dedicated linux distro to my 2DGame.
We?re programing this game totally in SDL, without OpenGL.
I?ve used Ansi C ( Not C++ )

And the words “DRI”, “FrameBuffer”, “XOrg” and “Vesa” are concepts
that cause me some confusion. Mainly when treated togheter or
superficially.

So, my question is:

My SDL dedicated machine/linux need to have… What?

  • kernel-compiled FrameBuffer ?
  • XOrg ?
  • DRI ?

You get best audience with everything, but there are some legal and
practical issues. For Xorg you most likely can’t use closed source
NVidia or ATI drivers. Frame buffer with VESA works for all but the
most stone-aged HW, but it is quite slow in every HW.

So what ever you use you will need a good HW detection SW to make
the CD really useful.

Live CDs already do that. Take the Mandriva Live CD as a base for
example. Since all their tools are GPL, it should be easy to do.

Also, you CAN use closed source NVidia drivers. The Mandriva Live CD
come with them for example :slight_smile: NVidia changed their driver licence
some times ago to allow that.

I know that those can be in freely distributable CD’s, but I don’t know
if one can use those in commercial CD’s. And this is the important
factor when talking about game CD, which might be commercial or not.On Friday 20 October 2006 01:21, Christophe Cavalaria wrote:

On Wednesday 18 October 2006 23:12, Miguel wrote:

10

It seems to me that you have two different questions.

  1. How do I create a linux distribution for a game appliance?

  2. How can I make my game run faster?

These questions may be unrelated. Your game my be using sub-optimal
techniques in terms of performance. Does it run fast anyplace else?
Has it ever run fast?

Is the source code available anywhere for inspection?

Also, if not directly related to SDL it might more properly be asked
on the gameprogrammer.com mailing list.

Best of luck,
ChrisOn 10/19/06, R?ben L?cio wrote:

The primary question is: how is the better way to run sdl games on linux?

–
E-Mail: Chris Nystrom <@Chris_Nystrom>
http://www.newio.org/
AIM: nystromchris

11

Sami N??t?nen wrote:

I know that those can be in freely distributable CD’s, but I don’t know
if one can use those in commercial CD’s. And this is the important
factor when talking about game CD, which might be commercial or not.

You’ll have to read the licence but I think it’s OK. After all, Mandriva
includes them in the boxed version of it’s distribution which is sold
commercially, and probably in the The Sims + Wine version of their Live CD
too.

And from the point of view of NVidia, it’s stupid to restrict the driver
usage like that anyway.

12

we no will distribuct the game… then, that is not a problem.

game will run on our machine, people only play on that.

I can run it so good on linux now, the bigger problem was the monitor wasn’t
configured correct, now it’s run to best performance…

Thank all guys, you help-us too much.

Best regards,

R?benOn 10/24/06, Christophe Cavalaria <chris.cavalaria at free.fr> wrote:

Sami N??t?nen wrote:

I know that those can be in freely distributable CD’s, but I don’t know
if one can use those in commercial CD’s. And this is the important
factor when talking about game CD, which might be commercial or not.

You’ll have to read the licence but I think it’s OK. After all, Mandriva
includes them in the boxed version of it’s distribution which is sold
commercially, and probably in the The Sims + Wine version of their Live CD
too.

And from the point of view of NVidia, it’s stupid to restrict the driver
usage like that anyway.

SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

–
Linux user #433535
Linux because we are freedon.