Unable to get fullscreen

Jean-Francois_Severe · February 16, 2011, 8:37pm

Hi,
I just started testing 1.3 to port my game to it, but I can’t seem to get
any fullscreen. My box is an ubuntu 10.04 with a Geforce GTX 460 (Nvidia
driver installed by ubuntu). I use two screens, when I disable one or setup
the screens as separate X screens, the resolution of the screen gets changed
right, but the window is not fullscreen. If I use twinview, the resolution
doesn’t even get changed. The windows get drawn ok though.
The code seems straightforward, I’m attaching a sample I have the problem on
in case I made a stupid mistake.
Did I hit a bug or am I missing something ?
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slouken · February 16, 2011, 9:06pm

Did you try the latest snapshot? I fixed a bunch of stuff with fullscreen
support in the last day or two:
http://www.libsdl.org/tmp/SDL-1.3.zip

BTW, you might want to add a keydown handler there, otherwise you’ll have to
log in remotely to shutdown your fullscreen app. Guess how I found out?

See ya!

2011/2/16 Jean-Fran?ois S?v?re > Hi,

I just started testing 1.3 to port my game to it, but I can’t seem to get
any fullscreen. My box is an ubuntu 10.04 with a Geforce GTX 460 (Nvidia
driver installed by ubuntu). I use two screens, when I disable one or setup
the screens as separate X screens, the resolution of the screen gets changed
right, but the window is not fullscreen. If I use twinview, the resolution
doesn’t even get changed. The windows get drawn ok though.
The code seems straightforward, I’m attaching a sample I have the problem
on in case I made a stupid mistake.
Did I hit a bug or am I missing something ?

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

–
-Sam Lantinga, Founder and CEO, Galaxy Gameworks

Jean-Francois_Severe · February 16, 2011, 9:31pm

I pulled hg tip an hour ago, after the mail about fullscreen changes.
I’ll add the keydown handler sorry for messing up your session but
appearently you get fullscreen at home, so it’s not my code, it’s my box.
Any ideas of tests I can run to nail the problem ? I can run games like
vendetta online in fullscreen, so there must be a way.

2011/2/16 Sam Lantinga > Did you try the latest snapshot? I fixed a bunch of stuff with fullscreen

support in the last day or two:
http://www.libsdl.org/tmp/SDL-1.3.zip

BTW, you might want to add a keydown handler there, otherwise you’ll have
to log in remotely to shutdown your fullscreen app. Guess how I found out?

See ya!

2011/2/16 Jean-Fran?ois S?v?re <@Jean-Francois_Severe>

Hi,
I just started testing 1.3 to port my game to it, but I can’t seem to get
any fullscreen. My box is an ubuntu 10.04 with a Geforce GTX 460 (Nvidia
driver installed by ubuntu). I use two screens, when I disable one or setup
the screens as separate X screens, the resolution of the screen gets changed
right, but the window is not fullscreen. If I use twinview, the resolution
doesn’t even get changed. The windows get drawn ok though.
The code seems straightforward, I’m attaching a sample I have the problem
on in case I made a stupid mistake.
Did I hit a bug or am I missing something ?

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

–
-Sam Lantinga, Founder and CEO, Galaxy Gameworks

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

slouken · February 16, 2011, 10:24pm

I haven’t tested with twinview, so I’m not sure what the code should do to
change resolution in that case. You’re welcome to poke around in
SDL_x11modes.c and see if you can find out what it should be doing.

As for not going fullscreen, I’m using the _NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN
protocol. What window manager are you using?

Thanks!

2011/2/16 Jean-Fran?ois S?v?re > I pulled hg tip an hour ago, after the mail about fullscreen changes.

I’ll add the keydown handler sorry for messing up your session but
appearently you get fullscreen at home, so it’s not my code, it’s my box.
Any ideas of tests I can run to nail the problem ? I can run games like
vendetta online in fullscreen, so there must be a way.

2011/2/16 Sam Lantinga <@slouken>

Did you try the latest snapshot? I fixed a bunch of stuff with fullscreen

support in the last day or two:
http://www.libsdl.org/tmp/SDL-1.3.zip

BTW, you might want to add a keydown handler there, otherwise you’ll have
to log in remotely to shutdown your fullscreen app. Guess how I found out?

See ya!

2011/2/16 Jean-Fran?ois S?v?re

Hi,
I just started testing 1.3 to port my game to it, but I can’t seem to get
any fullscreen. My box is an ubuntu 10.04 with a Geforce GTX 460 (Nvidia
driver installed by ubuntu). I use two screens, when I disable one or setup
the screens as separate X screens, the resolution of the screen gets changed
right, but the window is not fullscreen. If I use twinview, the resolution
doesn’t even get changed. The windows get drawn ok though.
The code seems straightforward, I’m attaching a sample I have the problem
on in case I made a stupid mistake.
Did I hit a bug or am I missing something ?

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

–
-Sam Lantinga, Founder and CEO, Galaxy Gameworks

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

–
-Sam Lantinga, Founder and CEO, Galaxy Gameworks

Jean-Francois_Severe · February 16, 2011, 11:33pm

Actually twinview has always been bugged in fullscreen as far as I know,
even with the best implementations, so never mind. I’d like more to have
fullscreen working.

I’m using a pretty standard ubuntu 10.04 LTS, so I suppose the WM is
metacity. It’s supposed to be NETWM compliant, so the
_NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN atom should work.
The code sending the atom is executed, I tried tweaking the code to be
closer to something I’ve tried with success on ubuntu before but it doesn’t
change anything.

2011/2/16 Sam Lantinga > I haven’t tested with twinview, so I’m not sure what the code should do to

change resolution in that case. You’re welcome to poke around in
SDL_x11modes.c and see if you can find out what it should be doing.

As for not going fullscreen, I’m using the _NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN
protocol. What window manager are you using?

Thanks!

2011/2/16 Jean-Fran?ois S?v?re <@Jean-Francois_Severe>

I pulled hg tip an hour ago, after the mail about fullscreen changes.
I’ll add the keydown handler sorry for messing up your session but
appearently you get fullscreen at home, so it’s not my code, it’s my box.
Any ideas of tests I can run to nail the problem ? I can run games like
vendetta online in fullscreen, so there must be a way.

2011/2/16 Sam Lantinga

Did you try the latest snapshot? I fixed a bunch of stuff with fullscreen

support in the last day or two:
http://www.libsdl.org/tmp/SDL-1.3.zip

BTW, you might want to add a keydown handler there, otherwise you’ll have
to log in remotely to shutdown your fullscreen app. Guess how I found out?

See ya!

2011/2/16 Jean-Fran?ois S?v?re <@Jean-Francois_Severe>

Hi,
I just started testing 1.3 to port my game to it, but I can’t seem to
get any fullscreen. My box is an ubuntu 10.04 with a Geforce GTX 460 (Nvidia
driver installed by ubuntu). I use two screens, when I disable one or setup
the screens as separate X screens, the resolution of the screen gets changed
right, but the window is not fullscreen. If I use twinview, the resolution
doesn’t even get changed. The windows get drawn ok though.
The code seems straightforward, I’m attaching a sample I have the
problem on in case I made a stupid mistake.
Did I hit a bug or am I missing something ?

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

–
-Sam Lantinga, Founder and CEO, Galaxy Gameworks

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

–
-Sam Lantinga, Founder and CEO, Galaxy Gameworks

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

Forest_Hale · February 17, 2011, 11:47am

I have no solid data on this, and no experience with the underlying code in Xorg, but in my experience the TwinView stuff has two main problems:

the Xinerama hinting (whatever form it may take) does not really work that well.
if you are using a non-desktop resolution, it is absolute failure (it changes to the closest matching MetaModes choice).

In general the problem is #2, not #1.

To resolve #2 I figure the best solution is to not resize the desktop under any circumstances, and instead scale up from a small viewport/fbo render for performance reasons.

I don’t know if there’s any reasonable way for SDL to do such, in all OpenGL apps it would require at least some app changes, perhaps triggered by an SDL_GL_FBOSCALING attribute being requested, and
then the app honoring the FBO and width/height provided by SDL?

P.S. it is good that _NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN is already utilized, as it resolves all the other fullscreen problems that many Linux games suffer (where they use an unmapped window and input grabbing)…On 02/16/2011 03:33 PM, Jean-Fran?ois S?v?re wrote:

Actually twinview has always been bugged in fullscreen as far as I know, even with the best implementations, so never mind. I’d like more to have fullscreen working.

I’m using a pretty standard ubuntu 10.04 LTS, so I suppose the WM is metacity. It’s supposed to be NETWM compliant, so the _NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN atom should work.
The code sending the atom is executed, I tried tweaking the code to be closer to something I’ve tried with success on ubuntu before but it doesn’t change anything.

2011/2/16 Sam Lantinga <slouken at libsdl.org <mailto:slouken at libsdl.org>>

I haven't tested with twinview, so I'm not sure what the code should do to change resolution in that case.  You're welcome to poke around in SDL_x11modes.c and see if you can find out what it
should be doing.

As for not going fullscreen, I'm using the _NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN protocol.  What window manager are you using?

Thanks!


2011/2/16 Jean-Fran?ois S?v?re <rewpparo at gmail.com <mailto:rewpparo at gmail.com>>

    I pulled hg tip an hour ago, after the mail about fullscreen changes.
    I'll add the keydown handler :) sorry for messing up your session :) but appearently you get fullscreen at home, so it's not my code, it's my box. Any ideas of tests I can run to nail the
    problem ? I can run games like vendetta online in fullscreen, so there must be a way.

    2011/2/16 Sam Lantinga <slouken at libsdl.org <mailto:slouken at libsdl.org>>

        Did you try the latest snapshot?  I fixed a bunch of stuff with fullscreen support in the last day or two:
        http://www.libsdl.org/tmp/SDL-1.3.zip

        BTW, you might want to add a keydown handler there, otherwise you'll have to log in remotely to shutdown your fullscreen app.  Guess how I found out? ;)

        See ya!

        2011/2/16 Jean-Fran?ois S?v?re <rewpparo at gmail.com <mailto:rewpparo at gmail.com>>

            Hi,
            I just started testing 1.3 to port my game to it, but I can't seem to get any fullscreen. My box is an ubuntu 10.04 with a Geforce GTX 460 (Nvidia driver installed by ubuntu). I use
            two screens, when I disable one or setup the screens as separate X screens, the resolution of the screen gets changed right, but the window is not fullscreen. If I use twinview, the
            resolution doesn't even get changed. The windows get drawn ok though.
            The code seems straightforward, I'm attaching a sample I have the problem on in case I made a stupid mistake.
            Did I hit a bug or am I missing something ?

            _______________________________________________
            SDL mailing list
            SDL at lists.libsdl.org <mailto:SDL at lists.libsdl.org>
            http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org




        --
             -Sam Lantinga, Founder and CEO, Galaxy Gameworks


        _______________________________________________
        SDL mailing list
        SDL at lists.libsdl.org <mailto:SDL at lists.libsdl.org>
        http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org



    _______________________________________________
    SDL mailing list
    SDL at lists.libsdl.org <mailto:SDL at lists.libsdl.org>
    http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org




--
     -Sam Lantinga, Founder and CEO, Galaxy Gameworks


_______________________________________________
SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org <mailto:SDL at lists.libsdl.org>
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

–
LordHavoc
Author of DarkPlaces Quake1 engine - http://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces
Co-designer of Nexuiz - http://alientrap.org/nexuiz
"War does not prove who is right, it proves who is left." - Unknown
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo." - James Klass
"A game is a series of interesting choices." - Sid Meier

Jean-Francois_Severe · February 21, 2011, 12:15pm

I tested the same program on another computer, with the same OS but the ATI
FGLRX driver. Fullscreen does work, but it switches automatically to cloned
displays and bugs the second one. Clone is not restored on program
termination.
The randomness of results depending on driver tells me that SDL is probably
not at fault here. However, some games like vendetta online did manage to
get an implementation that works on all computers I’ve tested.
Sam, what video hardware and driver did you have SDL working on ?

2011/2/17 Forest Hale > I have no solid data on this, and no experience with the underlying code in

Xorg, but in my experience the TwinView stuff has two main problems:

the Xinerama hinting (whatever form it may take) does not really work
that well.

if you are using a non-desktop resolution, it is absolute failure (it
changes to the closest matching MetaModes choice).

In general the problem is #2, not #1.

To resolve #2 I figure the best solution is to not resize the desktop under
any circumstances, and instead scale up from a small viewport/fbo render for
performance reasons.

I don’t know if there’s any reasonable way for SDL to do such, in all
OpenGL apps it would require at least some app changes, perhaps triggered by
an SDL_GL_FBOSCALING attribute being requested, and then the app honoring
the FBO and width/height provided by SDL?

P.S. it is good that _NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN is already utilized, as it
resolves all the other fullscreen problems that many Linux games suffer
(where they use an unmapped window and input grabbing)…

On 02/16/2011 03:33 PM, Jean-Fran?ois S?v?re wrote:
Actually twinview has always been bugged in fullscreen as far as I know,
even with the best implementations, so never mind. I’d like more to have
fullscreen working.

I’m using a pretty standard ubuntu 10.04 LTS, so I suppose the WM is
metacity. It’s supposed to be NETWM compliant, so the
_NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN atom should work.
The code sending the atom is executed, I tried tweaking the code to be
closer to something I’ve tried with success on ubuntu before but it doesn’t
change anything.

2011/2/16 Sam Lantinga <slouken at libsdl.org <mailto:slouken at libsdl.org>>

I haven’t tested with twinview, so I’m not sure what the code should do
to change resolution in that case. You’re welcome to poke around in
SDL_x11modes.c and see if you can find out what it
should be doing.

As for not going fullscreen, I’m using the _NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN
protocol. What window manager are you using?

Thanks!

2011/2/16 Jean-Fran?ois S?v?re <@Jean-Francois_Severe <mailto:
@Jean-Francois_Severe>>
   I pulled hg tip an hour ago, after the mail about fullscreen
changes.
I’ll add the keydown handler sorry for messing up your session
but appearently you get fullscreen at home, so it’s not my code, it’s my
box. Any ideas of tests I can run to nail the
problem ? I can run games like vendetta online in fullscreen, so
there must be a way.
   2011/2/16 Sam Lantinga <slouken at libsdl.org <mailto:
slouken at libsdl.org>>
       Did you try the latest snapshot?  I fixed a bunch of stuff with
fullscreen support in the last day or two:
http://www.libsdl.org/tmp/SDL-1.3.zip
       BTW, you might want to add a keydown handler there, otherwise
you’ll have to log in remotely to shutdown your fullscreen app. Guess how I
found out?
       See ya!

       2011/2/16 Jean-Fran?ois S?v?re <@Jean-Francois_Severe <mailto:
@Jean-Francois_Severe>>
           Hi,
           I just started testing 1.3 to port my game to it, but I
can’t seem to get any fullscreen. My box is an ubuntu 10.04 with a Geforce
GTX 460 (Nvidia driver installed by ubuntu). I use
two screens, when I disable one or setup the screens as
separate X screens, the resolution of the screen gets changed right, but the
window is not fullscreen. If I use twinview, the
resolution doesn’t even get changed. The windows get drawn
ok though.
The code seems straightforward, I’m attaching a sample I
have the problem on in case I made a stupid mistake.
Did I hit a bug or am I missing something ?
           _______________________________________________
           SDL mailing list
           SDL at lists.libsdl.org <mailto:SDL at lists.libsdl.org>

           http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org




       --
            -Sam Lantinga, Founder and CEO, Galaxy Gameworks


       _______________________________________________
       SDL mailing list
       SDL at lists.libsdl.org <mailto:SDL at lists.libsdl.org>

       http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org



   _______________________________________________
   SDL mailing list
   SDL at lists.libsdl.org <mailto:SDL at lists.libsdl.org>

   http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
–
-Sam Lantinga, Founder and CEO, Galaxy Gameworks

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org <mailto:SDL at lists.libsdl.org>

http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
–
LordHavoc
Author of DarkPlaces Quake1 engine -
http://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces
Co-designer of Nexuiz - http://alientrap.org/nexuiz
"War does not prove who is right, it proves who is left." - Unknown
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged
demo." - James Klass
"A game is a series of interesting choices." - Sid Meier

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

slouken · February 21, 2011, 3:14pm

I was testing with the latest ATI fglrx driver on Ubuntu 10.04, and no
special X.org config, on a Mac Pro with an ATI HD 4870.

2011/2/21 Jean-Fran?ois S?v?re :> I tested the same program on another computer, with the same OS but the ATI

FGLRX driver. Fullscreen does work, but it switches automatically to cloned
displays and bugs the second one. Clone is not restored on program
termination.
The randomness of results depending on driver tells me that SDL is probably
not at fault here. However, some games like vendetta online did manage to
get an implementation that works on all computers I’ve tested.
Sam, what video hardware and driver did you have SDL working on ?

2011/2/17 Forest Hale

I have no solid data on this, and no experience with the underlying code
in Xorg, but in my experience the TwinView stuff has two main problems:

the Xinerama hinting (whatever form it may take) does not really work
that well.

if you are using a non-desktop resolution, it is absolute failure (it
changes to the closest matching MetaModes choice).

In general the problem is #2, not #1.

To resolve #2 I figure the best solution is to not resize the desktop
under any circumstances, and instead scale up from a small viewport/fbo
render for performance reasons.

I don’t know if there’s any reasonable way for SDL to do such, in all
OpenGL apps it would require at least some app changes, perhaps triggered by
an SDL_GL_FBOSCALING attribute being requested, and then the app honoring
the FBO and width/height provided by SDL?

P.S. it is good that _NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN is already utilized, as it
resolves all the other fullscreen problems that many Linux games suffer
(where they use an unmapped window and input grabbing)…

On 02/16/2011 03:33 PM, Jean-Fran?ois S?v?re wrote:

Actually twinview has always been bugged in fullscreen as far as I know,
even with the best implementations, so never mind. I’d like more to have
fullscreen working.

I’m using a pretty standard ubuntu 10.04 LTS, so I suppose the WM is
metacity. It’s supposed to be NETWM compliant, so the
_NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN atom should work.
The code sending the atom is executed, I tried tweaking the code to be
closer to something I’ve tried with success on ubuntu before but it doesn’t
change anything.

2011/2/16 Sam Lantinga <@slouken mailto:slouken>

? ?I haven’t tested with twinview, so I’m not sure what the code should
do to change resolution in that case. ?You’re welcome to poke around in
SDL_x11modes.c and see if you can find out what it
? ?should be doing.

? ?As for not going fullscreen, I’m using the _NET_WM_STATE_FULLSCREEN
protocol. ?What window manager are you using?

? ?Thanks!

? ?2011/2/16 Jean-Fran?ois S?v?re <rewpparo at gmail.com
<mailto:rewpparo at gmail.com>>

? ? ? ?I pulled hg tip an hour ago, after the mail about fullscreen
changes.
? ? ? ?I’ll add the keydown handler sorry for messing up your session
but appearently you get fullscreen at home, so it’s not my code, it’s my
box. Any ideas of tests I can run to nail the
? ? ? ?problem ? I can run games like vendetta online in fullscreen, so
there must be a way.

? ? ? ?2011/2/16 Sam Lantinga <@slouken
mailto:slouken>

? ? ? ? ? ?Did you try the latest snapshot? ?I fixed a bunch of stuff
with fullscreen support in the last day or two:
? ? ? ? ? ?http://www.libsdl.org/tmp/SDL-1.3.zip

? ? ? ? ? ?BTW, you might want to add a keydown handler there, otherwise
you’ll have to log in remotely to shutdown your fullscreen app. ?Guess how I
found out?

? ? ? ? ? ?See ya!

? ? ? ? ? ?2011/2/16 Jean-Fran?ois S?v?re <rewpparo at gmail.com
<mailto:rewpparo at gmail.com>>

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Hi,
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?I just started testing 1.3 to port my game to it, but I
can’t seem to get any fullscreen. My box is an ubuntu 10.04 with a Geforce
GTX 460 (Nvidia driver installed by ubuntu). I use
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?two screens, when I disable one or setup the screens as
separate X screens, the resolution of the screen gets changed right, but the
window is not fullscreen. If I use twinview, the
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?resolution doesn’t even get changed. The windows get drawn
ok though.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?The code seems straightforward, I’m attaching a sample I
have the problem on in case I made a stupid mistake.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Did I hit a bug or am I missing something ?

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?_______________________________________________
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?SDL mailing list
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?SDL at lists.libsdl.org <mailto:SDL at lists.libsdl.org>
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

? ? ? ? ? ?–
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -Sam Lantinga, Founder and CEO, Galaxy Gameworks

? ? ? ? ? ?_______________________________________________
? ? ? ? ? ?SDL mailing list
? ? ? ? ? ?SDL at lists.libsdl.org <mailto:SDL at lists.libsdl.org>
? ? ? ? ? ?http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

? ? ? ?_______________________________________________
? ? ? ?SDL mailing list
? ? ? ?SDL at lists.libsdl.org <mailto:SDL at lists.libsdl.org>
? ? ? ?http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

? ?–
? ? ? ? -Sam Lantinga, Founder and CEO, Galaxy Gameworks

? ?_______________________________________________
? ?SDL mailing list
? ?SDL at lists.libsdl.org <mailto:SDL at lists.libsdl.org>
? ?http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

–
LordHavoc
Author of DarkPlaces Quake1 engine -
http://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces
Co-designer of Nexuiz - http://alientrap.org/nexuiz
"War does not prove who is right, it proves who is left." - Unknown
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged
demo." - James Klass
"A game is a series of interesting choices." - Sid Meier

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

SDL mailing list
SDL at lists.libsdl.org
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org

–
? ? -Sam Lantinga, Founder and CEO, Galaxy Gameworks