Vector graphics

I am working on a game that displays stuff to the screen (do I get points for
the stupidest opening line ever?). I would like my graphics to be “big”, no
matter what resolution the user is running in, but I would prefer to not just
set the video mode to 640x480. I had to use a monitor for several years that
would only sync at 1152x864 at 75Hz, so I’m sensitive about forcing a particular
rez :slight_smile: I figure that if I used only vector-style graphics (svg, postscript,
pdf, etc), it would be easy. However, what’s the best way to do that,
cross-platform? I really only care about linux and OSX, but whatever I come
up with has to run on both. And, if there is a way to do what I want (have
one picture that displays equally as ‘large’ on any rez display) without
using a vector-based graphics format, I’m open to that as well! No close
mindedness here…

Any pointers or suggestions would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks!–
D.A.Bishop

Hey i got a suggestion for you!

Use OpenGL! (unless you already are!)

OpenGL will help considerably with drawing lines quickly (lines and line
loops are primitives) as well as in GL you dont work with pixels, you work
in 3d space so you can set your screen up to be any resolution you want and
still have it apear the same.

Plus youll get hardware acceleration and stuff.

I really think its theOpenGL is cross platform and works w/ SDL very nicely.

If i were to do what your doing this is the path i would go> ----- Original Message -----

From: tech@bishop.dhs.org (David Bishop)
To:
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 3:02 PM
Subject: [SDL] vector graphics

I am working on a game that displays stuff to the screen (do I get points
for
the stupidest opening line ever?). I would like my graphics to be “big”,
no
matter what resolution the user is running in, but I would prefer to not
just
set the video mode to 640x480. I had to use a monitor for several years
that
would only sync at 1152x864 at 75Hz, so I’m sensitive about forcing a
particular
rez :slight_smile: I figure that if I used only vector-style graphics (svg,
postscript,
pdf, etc), it would be easy. However, what’s the best way to do that,
cross-platform? I really only care about linux and OSX, but whatever I
come
up with has to run on both. And, if there is a way to do what I want
(have
one picture that displays equally as ‘large’ on any rez display) without
using a vector-based graphics format, I’m open to that as well! No close
mindedness here…

Any pointers or suggestions would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks!


D.A.Bishop


SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

Unfortunetly, OpenGL won’t really work. This is a kids game, with a
deliberately low ‘specs’ requirement. For example, my development machine is
a 300Mhz iBook running OSX. Any full-screen OpenGL app on this machine
(rage IIc video) runs in the low single-digit fps. And yes, I should have
mentioned this in my original email. My bad…

But thanks for the thought!On Monday 27 October 2003 4:32 pm, Alan Wolfe wrote:

Hey i got a suggestion for you!

Use OpenGL! (unless you already are!)

OpenGL will help considerably with drawing lines quickly (lines and line
loops are primitives) as well as in GL you dont work with pixels, you work
in 3d space so you can set your screen up to be any resolution you want and
still have it apear the same.

Plus youll get hardware acceleration and stuff.

I really think its theOpenGL is cross platform and works w/ SDL very
nicely.

If i were to do what your doing this is the path i would go

----- Original Message -----
From: “David Bishop”
To:
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 3:02 PM
Subject: [SDL] vector graphics

I am working on a game that displays stuff to the screen (do I get points

for

the stupidest opening line ever?). I would like my graphics to be “big”,

no

matter what resolution the user is running in, but I would prefer to not

just

set the video mode to 640x480. I had to use a monitor for several years

that

would only sync at 1152x864 at 75Hz, so I’m sensitive about forcing a

particular

rez :slight_smile: I figure that if I used only vector-style graphics (svg,

postscript,

pdf, etc), it would be easy. However, what’s the best way to do that,
cross-platform? I really only care about linux and OSX, but whatever I

come

up with has to run on both. And, if there is a way to do what I want

(have

one picture that displays equally as ‘large’ on any rez display) without
using a vector-based graphics format, I’m open to that as well! No close
mindedness here…

Any pointers or suggestions would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks!


D.A.Bishop


SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl


SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl


D.A.Bishop

What have you tried as far as low-end OpenGL applications? Just asking
because I know it will run on the machine, perhaps not well.

–Nathan

David Bishop wrote:> Unfortunetly, OpenGL won’t really work. This is a kids game, with a

deliberately low ‘specs’ requirement. For example, my development machine is
a 300Mhz iBook running OSX. Any full-screen OpenGL app on this machine
(rage IIc video) runs in the low single-digit fps. And yes, I should have
mentioned this in my original email. My bad…

But thanks for the thought!

On Monday 27 October 2003 4:32 pm, Alan Wolfe wrote:

Hey i got a suggestion for you!

Use OpenGL! (unless you already are!)

OpenGL will help considerably with drawing lines quickly (lines and line
loops are primitives) as well as in GL you dont work with pixels, you work
in 3d space so you can set your screen up to be any resolution you want and
still have it apear the same.

Plus youll get hardware acceleration and stuff.

I really think its theOpenGL is cross platform and works w/ SDL very
nicely.

If i were to do what your doing this is the path i would go

----- Original Message -----
From: “David Bishop”
To:
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 3:02 PM
Subject: [SDL] vector graphics

I am working on a game that displays stuff to the screen (do I get points

for

the stupidest opening line ever?). I would like my graphics to be “big”,

no

matter what resolution the user is running in, but I would prefer to not

just

set the video mode to 640x480. I had to use a monitor for several years

that

would only sync at 1152x864 at 75Hz, so I’m sensitive about forcing a

particular

rez :slight_smile: I figure that if I used only vector-style graphics (svg,

postscript,

pdf, etc), it would be easy. However, what’s the best way to do that,
cross-platform? I really only care about linux and OSX, but whatever I

come

up with has to run on both. And, if there is a way to do what I want

(have

one picture that displays equally as ‘large’ on any rez display) without
using a vector-based graphics format, I’m open to that as well! No close
mindedness here…

Any pointers or suggestions would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks!


D.A.Bishop


SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl


SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

Well, to be honest, I haven’t deliberately sought out low-end OpenGL
applications. I’ve just tried enough over the last couple years to
associate OpenGL == Completely Unusable (on the iBook). On my linux
machine (nice video card, etc), OGL’s great, but… The main problem is
that the rage has no 3d acceleration (at least as supported by OSX),
so everything is done on the CPU. And the CPU has a hard time with just
Konfabulator + Finder :slight_smile:

But, I’m actually glad that I have such a lowend machine, because if I
can get my game running nicely on it, then I’m set. At my day job, I’m
a big propenent of giving the developers crappy machines to work on,
(while having fast compile farms), so that they don’t get to spoiled*.
This is just following my own counsel… Albiet only because I’m too
poor for a G5 (or g4, or speedy g3…).

D.A.Bishop

*Of course, sysads like myself need the latest and greatest ;-)On Mon, Oct 27, 2003 at 07:31:06PM -0600, Nathan Morell wrote:

What have you tried as far as low-end OpenGL applications? Just asking
because I know it will run on the machine, perhaps not well.

–Nathan

David Bishop wrote:

Unfortunetly, OpenGL won’t really work. This is a kids game, with a
deliberately low ‘specs’ requirement. For example, my development machine
is a 300Mhz iBook running OSX. Any full-screen OpenGL app on this
machine (rage IIc video) runs in the low single-digit fps. And yes, I
should have mentioned this in my original email. My bad…

But thanks for the thought!

I know you specifically said against using vector-based graphics formats,
but that’s probably the best way to go, since you’ve already cancelled out
OpenGL.

The vector based approach can do wonders for this kind of thing –
especially since you’re targetting both Linux and OSX. Using a vector-based
approach will allow you to better support the wide-screen 16:9 OSX supports,
aswell as the traditional 4:3 monitors. If your main concern with using
vector-based formats is the artists working on your project (be them others,
or yourself), having experience with vector-based drawing, there are tons of
tools out there that will convert from rasterized to vector (off the top of
my head, Corel has like 8 different programs that do this, but I’m sure
there’s gotta be some open-source solutions out there).

In reality, rendering vector-based formats is a breeze – you just have to
remember to keep all your units in vector space (floating point), and map
the vector space to screen-space at runtime. The only thing that changes
from resolution to resolution is the mapping. If you want your mapping to
be piece of cake, use a double-precision-based (‘double’ in C/C++), and have
your screen space be represented from [0, 1] in it – that way you just have
to multiply your screen dimensions to the vector inorder to get pixel
coordinates.

If you’re a particularily crafty programmer, and want your game to look
really good, you could even go so far as to do some optional (i.e. make sure
to make a checkbox for it somewhere) anti-aliasing on it, too, and provide
those with decent CPUs to see a little better detail even at low resolutions
(bad video card and 1.8Ghz processor? No problem!).

Oh, and, on another plus-note, vector-based graphics tend to create smaller
data than rasterized ones. I mean, for a 100x100 pixle circle colored in
RGBA, it’d take at least 40000b of space, but might take as little as 35b in
vectorized form (be they in memory, on disk, or being transfered over the
net).

Just some food for thought.

  • Silicon> ----- Original Message -----

From: tech@bishop.dhs.org (David Bishop)
To:
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 4:02 PM
Subject: [SDL] vector graphics

I am working on a game that displays stuff to the screen (do I get points
for
the stupidest opening line ever?). I would like my graphics to be “big”,
no
matter what resolution the user is running in, but I would prefer to not
just
set the video mode to 640x480. I had to use a monitor for several years
that
would only sync at 1152x864 at 75Hz, so I’m sensitive about forcing a
particular
rez :slight_smile: I figure that if I used only vector-style graphics (svg,
postscript,
pdf, etc), it would be easy. However, what’s the best way to do that,
cross-platform? I really only care about linux and OSX, but whatever I
come
up with has to run on both. And, if there is a way to do what I want
(have
one picture that displays equally as ‘large’ on any rez display) without
using a vector-based graphics format, I’m open to that as well! No close
mindedness here…

Any pointers or suggestions would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks!


D.A.Bishop


SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl


Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 10/22/2003

I think you misread my email. I’m in favor of vector-based graphics.
What I’m looking for advice on is what particular format would work well
with SDL. I guess I was expecting there to be an SDL_svg, or something.

But thanks for explicating all the reasons why I decided to go with
vector in the first place. It’s a good summary of the argument…

:slight_smile:

D.A.BishopOn Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 06:44:42PM -0700, John Silicon wrote:

I know you specifically said against using vector-based graphics formats,
but that’s probably the best way to go, since you’ve already cancelled out
OpenGL.

The vector based approach can do wonders for this kind of thing –
especially since you’re targetting both Linux and OSX. Using a vector-based
approach will allow you to better support the wide-screen 16:9 OSX supports,
aswell as the traditional 4:3 monitors. If your main concern with using
vector-based formats is the artists working on your project (be them others,
or yourself), having experience with vector-based drawing, there are tons of
tools out there that will convert from rasterized to vector (off the top of
my head, Corel has like 8 different programs that do this, but I’m sure
there’s gotta be some open-source solutions out there).

In reality, rendering vector-based formats is a breeze – you just have to
remember to keep all your units in vector space (floating point), and map
the vector space to screen-space at runtime. The only thing that changes
from resolution to resolution is the mapping. If you want your mapping to
be piece of cake, use a double-precision-based (‘double’ in C/C++), and have
your screen space be represented from [0, 1] in it – that way you just have
to multiply your screen dimensions to the vector inorder to get pixel
coordinates.

If you’re a particularily crafty programmer, and want your game to look
really good, you could even go so far as to do some optional (i.e. make sure
to make a checkbox for it somewhere) anti-aliasing on it, too, and provide
those with decent CPUs to see a little better detail even at low resolutions
(bad video card and 1.8Ghz processor? No problem!).

Oh, and, on another plus-note, vector-based graphics tend to create smaller
data than rasterized ones. I mean, for a 100x100 pixle circle colored in
RGBA, it’d take at least 40000b of space, but might take as little as 35b in
vectorized form (be they in memory, on disk, or being transfered over the
net).

Just some food for thought.

  • Silicon

----- Original Message -----
From: “David Bishop”
To:
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 4:02 PM
Subject: [SDL] vector graphics

I am working on a game that displays stuff to the screen (do I get points
for
the stupidest opening line ever?). I would like my graphics to be “big”,
no
matter what resolution the user is running in, but I would prefer to not
just
set the video mode to 640x480. I had to use a monitor for several years
that
would only sync at 1152x864 at 75Hz, so I’m sensitive about forcing a
particular
rez :slight_smile: I figure that if I used only vector-style graphics (svg,
postscript,
pdf, etc), it would be easy. However, what’s the best way to do that,
cross-platform? I really only care about linux and OSX, but whatever I
come
up with has to run on both. And, if there is a way to do what I want
(have
one picture that displays equally as ‘large’ on any rez display) without
using a vector-based graphics format, I’m open to that as well! No close
mindedness here…

Any pointers or suggestions would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks!


D.A.Bishop


SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl


Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl

Opps. Looks like I did do just that. Sorry about that.

Anyways, as far as I know, nobody’s working specifically on this area.
However, it’s not too hard to impliment this kind of thing – and it might
be better (depending on your plans for the game – this keeps people from
modifying it’s graphics easily).
First, you’ll need to identify what graphics primitives you need to
impliment – things like circles, rectangles, elipses, line, etc. The data
file format can be implimented in various ways – from XML (), to plain text (circle 0.5 0.5 0.1), to a binary dump of
some struct/class/whatever.
Then, each frame, you take vector-space coordinates for each primitive
you’re drawing, convert them to screen coordinates, and pass them off you
the standard primitive drawing stuff (SDL_draw, or many of the other ones,
or maybe even one of your own design)

Again, somebnody miight be working on SDL_svg (or similar), but I might not
know about it (google maybe?).

  • Silicon> ----- Original Message -----

From: tech@bishop.dhs.org (David Bishop)
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [SDL] vector graphics

I think you misread my email. I’m in favor of vector-based graphics.
What I’m looking for advice on is what particular format would work well
with SDL. I guess I was expecting there to be an SDL_svg, or something.

But thanks for explicating all the reasons why I decided to go with
vector in the first place. It’s a good summary of the argument…

:slight_smile:

D.A.Bishop

On Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 06:44:42PM -0700, John Silicon wrote:

I know you specifically said against using vector-based graphics
formats,

but that’s probably the best way to go, since you’ve already cancelled
out

OpenGL.

The vector based approach can do wonders for this kind of thing –
especially since you’re targetting both Linux and OSX. Using a
vector-based

approach will allow you to better support the wide-screen 16:9 OSX
supports,

aswell as the traditional 4:3 monitors. If your main concern with using
vector-based formats is the artists working on your project (be them
others,

or yourself), having experience with vector-based drawing, there are
tons of

tools out there that will convert from rasterized to vector (off the top
of

my head, Corel has like 8 different programs that do this, but I’m sure
there’s gotta be some open-source solutions out there).

In reality, rendering vector-based formats is a breeze – you just have
to

remember to keep all your units in vector space (floating point), and
map

the vector space to screen-space at runtime. The only thing that
changes

from resolution to resolution is the mapping. If you want your mapping
to

be piece of cake, use a double-precision-based (‘double’ in C/C++), and
have

your screen space be represented from [0, 1] in it – that way you just
have

to multiply your screen dimensions to the vector inorder to get pixel
coordinates.

If you’re a particularily crafty programmer, and want your game to look
really good, you could even go so far as to do some optional (i.e. make
sure

to make a checkbox for it somewhere) anti-aliasing on it, too, and
provide

those with decent CPUs to see a little better detail even at low
resolutions

(bad video card and 1.8Ghz processor? No problem!).

Oh, and, on another plus-note, vector-based graphics tend to create
smaller

data than rasterized ones. I mean, for a 100x100 pixle circle colored
in

RGBA, it’d take at least 40000b of space, but might take as little as
35b in

vectorized form (be they in memory, on disk, or being transfered over
the

net).

Just some food for thought.

  • Silicon

----- Original Message -----
From: “David Bishop”
To:
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 4:02 PM
Subject: [SDL] vector graphics

I am working on a game that displays stuff to the screen (do I get
points

for

the stupidest opening line ever?). I would like my graphics to be
"big",

no

matter what resolution the user is running in, but I would prefer to
not

just

set the video mode to 640x480. I had to use a monitor for several
years

that

would only sync at 1152x864 at 75Hz, so I’m sensitive about forcing a
particular
rez :slight_smile: I figure that if I used only vector-style graphics (svg,
postscript,
pdf, etc), it would be easy. However, what’s the best way to do that,
cross-platform? I really only care about linux and OSX, but whatever
I

come

up with has to run on both. And, if there is a way to do what I want
(have
one picture that displays equally as ‘large’ on any rez display)
without

using a vector-based graphics format, I’m open to that as well! No
close

mindedness here…

Any pointers or suggestions would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks!


D.A.Bishop


SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl


Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl


SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl


Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 10/22/2003

Opps. Looks like I did do just that. Sorry about that.

Anyways, as far as I know, nobody’s working specifically on this area.
However, it’s not too hard to impliment this kind of thing – and it might
be better (depending on your plans for the game – this keeps people from
modifying it’s graphics easily).
First, you’ll need to identify what graphics primitives you need to
impliment – things like circles, rectangles, elipses, line, etc. The data
file format can be implimented in various ways – from XML (), to plain text (circle 0.5 0.5 0.1), to a binary dump of
some struct/class/whatever.
Then, each frame, you take vector-space coordinates for each primitive
you’re drawing, convert them to screen coordinates, and pass them off you
the standard primitive drawing stuff (SDL_draw, or many of the other ones,
or maybe even one of your own design)

To make my polyfonts library work I wrote a simple rasterizer that
handles a tiny subset of OpenGL (I do mean tiny) called SGL. That
might get you started in the direction you want to go.
http://gameprogrammer.com/polyfonts/polyfonts.html

It is based on code I wrote for doing graphics in the bad old days of
DOS. Actually, some of it is a lot older than DOS :-). But, I needed
something to let me draw vector based fonts on SDL without using OpenGL.

There are other SDL graphics libraries out there that are also worth a
look. Spend a few minutes on libsdl.org searching the libraries list.
Tons of stuff there.

	Bob PendletonOn Tue, 2003-10-28 at 23:16, John Silicon wrote:

Again, somebnody miight be working on SDL_svg (or similar), but I might not
know about it (google maybe?).

  • Silicon

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [SDL] vector graphics

I think you misread my email. I’m in favor of vector-based graphics.
What I’m looking for advice on is what particular format would work well
with SDL. I guess I was expecting there to be an SDL_svg, or something.

But thanks for explicating all the reasons why I decided to go with
vector in the first place. It’s a good summary of the argument…

:slight_smile:

D.A.Bishop

On Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 06:44:42PM -0700, John Silicon wrote:

I know you specifically said against using vector-based graphics
formats,

but that’s probably the best way to go, since you’ve already cancelled
out

OpenGL.

The vector based approach can do wonders for this kind of thing –
especially since you’re targetting both Linux and OSX. Using a
vector-based

approach will allow you to better support the wide-screen 16:9 OSX
supports,

aswell as the traditional 4:3 monitors. If your main concern with using
vector-based formats is the artists working on your project (be them
others,

or yourself), having experience with vector-based drawing, there are
tons of

tools out there that will convert from rasterized to vector (off the top
of

my head, Corel has like 8 different programs that do this, but I’m sure
there’s gotta be some open-source solutions out there).

In reality, rendering vector-based formats is a breeze – you just have
to

remember to keep all your units in vector space (floating point), and
map

the vector space to screen-space at runtime. The only thing that
changes

from resolution to resolution is the mapping. If you want your mapping
to

be piece of cake, use a double-precision-based (‘double’ in C/C++), and
have

your screen space be represented from [0, 1] in it – that way you just
have

to multiply your screen dimensions to the vector inorder to get pixel
coordinates.

If you’re a particularily crafty programmer, and want your game to look
really good, you could even go so far as to do some optional (i.e. make
sure

to make a checkbox for it somewhere) anti-aliasing on it, too, and
provide

those with decent CPUs to see a little better detail even at low
resolutions

(bad video card and 1.8Ghz processor? No problem!).

Oh, and, on another plus-note, vector-based graphics tend to create
smaller

data than rasterized ones. I mean, for a 100x100 pixle circle colored
in

RGBA, it’d take at least 40000b of space, but might take as little as
35b in

vectorized form (be they in memory, on disk, or being transfered over
the

net).

Just some food for thought.

  • Silicon

----- Original Message -----
From: “David Bishop”
To:
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 4:02 PM
Subject: [SDL] vector graphics

I am working on a game that displays stuff to the screen (do I get
points

for

the stupidest opening line ever?). I would like my graphics to be
"big",

no

matter what resolution the user is running in, but I would prefer to
not

just

set the video mode to 640x480. I had to use a monitor for several
years

that

would only sync at 1152x864 at 75Hz, so I’m sensitive about forcing a
particular
rez :slight_smile: I figure that if I used only vector-style graphics (svg,
postscript,
pdf, etc), it would be easy. However, what’s the best way to do that,
cross-platform? I really only care about linux and OSX, but whatever
I

come

up with has to run on both. And, if there is a way to do what I want
(have
one picture that displays equally as ‘large’ on any rez display)
without

using a vector-based graphics format, I’m open to that as well! No
close

mindedness here…

Any pointers or suggestions would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks!


D.A.Bishop


SDL mailing list
SDL at libsdl.org
http://www.libsdl.org/mailman/listinfo/sdl


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±--------------------------------------+

Hi,

is there an extension for SDL available to handle some
kind of vector graphics? For example for animated,
colored fonts?

Best regards,
Torsten.

Hi,

is there an extension for SDL available to handle some
kind of vector graphics? For example for animated,
colored fonts?

Anti-Grain Geometry can draw to SDL surfaces.

http://www.antigrain.com/

BrunoOn Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:32:11 -0200, Torsten Mohr wrote:

There’s SDL_svg for SVG image rendering. It was dead for a while,
but then picked back up. I hope to eventually incorporate support for it
in Tux Paint.

http://www.linuxmotors.com/SDL_svg/On Sun, Oct 23, 2005 at 04:32:11PM +0200, Torsten Mohr wrote:

Hi,

is there an extension for SDL available to handle some
kind of vector graphics? For example for animated,
colored fonts?


-bill!
bill at newbreedsoftware.com
http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/